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+--- Thread: Der Gasser- Letter to Editor (/showthread.php?tid=1868)
- emayer - 09-01-2009
I just received the latest Der Gasser which I thoroughly enjoyed. My enthusiasm however was somewhat tempered by Bill O'Connell's letter.
I respect the points he's trying to make toward improving the club, but the notion that this is something of an old versus new member dichotomy fails to recognize the obvious economic situation that has driven the majority of the difficult decisions the exec council has had to make. Recognizing this, rather than beating down the current leadership, I propose we put out a few constructive ideas. I would add that having members of various ages, experiences, interests, and backgrounds are exactly what makes this club so special and enjoyable.
Thinking about this last night, I thought I'd put forth one idea:
Bill makes the valid statement that DE was once a revenue stream for the club which has since changed of late. In particular, he points out the diminishing participation of advanced drivers. No doubt, this problem is endemic throughout motorsports. It seems that there remains significant interest and registration amongst the beginner/novice groups. Since this is also a potential source for the recruitment of club members, I suggest that until economic conditions improve, future DE schedules be modified with a reduction in dedicated advanced days replacing some of these with novice/intermediate categories.
- Darren - 09-01-2009
I don't see the most recent Der Gasser online so I couldn't read the article.
I think you make a good point -- especially advanced days during the week were difficult this year because people didn't want to take time off from work due to the economy and uncertainty in general. We also had adjustments to the traditional schedule because of more dates at NJMP. Scheduling these events is not an easy/superficial task and it might take some time to work this out.
There is also a challenge with attracting enough instructors. Summit Point this year was very difficult for the instructors with 2 students and only 4 run groups. That meant we were in cars 3 out of 4 sessions all day long, it was exhausting!
Personally, and I've had this conversation with many people including some of the execs, I find it difficult to want to instruct at a PCA event where I have to take 2 students and pay at the same time. Most non-PCA clubs let instructors run for free -- if I'm so busy instructing that I don't have time to drive, then I don't think I should have to pay.
DE is getting to be a competitive business and clubs need to find ways to continue to attract enough people, from all of the ranks, to keep things going. There are more and more clubs every year, more tracks, and more events.
I don't think any of us have the clear and final answer to any of this and I'd like to think this forum is a good place for this kind of discussion. I know the execs are on here reading, though they rarely comment.
- George3 - 09-01-2009
Darren wrote:
Quote:There is also a challenge with attracting enough instructors. Summit Point this year was very difficult for the instructors with 2 students and only 4 run groups. That meant we were in cars 3 out of 4 sessions all day long, it was exhausting!
Personally, and I've had this conversation with many people including some of the execs, I find it difficult to want to instruct at a PCA event where I have to take 2 students and pay at the same time. Most non-PCA clubs let instructors run for free -- if I'm so busy instructing that I don't have time to drive, then I don't think I should have to pay.
DE is getting to be a competitive business and clubs need to find ways to continue to attract enough people, from all of the ranks, to keep things going. There are more and more clubs every year, more tracks, and more events.
I don't think any of us have the clear and final answer to any of this and I'd like to think this forum is a good place for this kind of discussion. I know the execs are on here reading, though they rarely comment.
Ditto.
- catchacab - 09-01-2009
The region has earned a bad name from out of region instructors, and these instructors and those who know them do not consider attending RTR DE. This reputation was earned many years ago by a number of former CIs who treated the out of region instuctors (and some in region casually active instructors) without respect or appreciation. Two students, not giving them a garage at the glen, not assiging a student to instuctors who are friends of the CI, critism, and an attitude of superiority has driven these seasoned instructors and kept other instructors away.
Add into this there are more tracks, (five more within a five hour drive than there were 5 years ago) more DE events and more opportunities for Club racing, plus a difficult economy makes recruiting instructors more difficult.
Jack since becoming CI has made many improvements. This year at the Glen I brought a driving coach who never attended a RTR DE, and was not driving at the event. He was also assigned a student for the event. Jack treated him with a high level of respect. He will instruct for us again.
- George3 - 09-01-2009
- Brian Minkin - 09-01-2009
I just like every RTR instructor find events much more enjoyable when I only have 1 student. For the past two years RTR had an instructor group large enough to support 1 student per instructor at most events. This year something changed. The exec has tossed around a lot of "it maybe" reasons but no one knows for sure why we have such a shortage of instructors this year. I think the instructors who have attended 4 or fewer events this year need to have a survey sent to them to learn why.
Despite that RTR still has a strong DE program and a core group of dedicated instructors that will work hard with 2 students and help them become proficient high speed drivers.
George I understand your issue (I was there) and I hope this will not cause you to stop instructing for RTR. You have been a very active DE driver, instructor and friend. I hope to enjoy your company at many future events.
- emayer - 09-02-2009
This is a constructive dialogue and perhaps more pertinent given the fact that economic conditions surrounding DE are unlikely to improve soon. I've had the privilege of having George as an instructor (Jedi Master!
), but expressed concern for his own personal safety when having to scramble from one session to another while trying to stay sharp for his own run group.From the gist of the responses it seems a few themes emerge:
There is interest amongst beginner/novice drivers to fill DE events however this is limited by the availability of the instructor pool, RTR reputation based on prior leadership, and the lack of compensation/discounts in participating.
I'll take a stab at trying to address these points:
1. I agree with surveying current and former instructors to evaluate shortfalls.
2. Consider an increase in novice/intermediate DE fees in order to renumerate instructors either in the form of discounted fees, lodging, meals etc. Frankly speaking, the risk of simply getting into a stranger's car in that environment alone is reason to develop this! As a novice driver myself, I think it's the least we can do in appreciation. It could possibly be scaled based on the number of students or events the instructor participates with.
3. Review instructor policies of other clubs to see what mechanisms work and implement these ideas here.
- ccm911 - 09-02-2009
Even though I have been away from the track for a while, I was completely involved during my time as registrar. And boy, what a run it was. It got to the point where I was able to make as much money as we wanted. There was that much interest.
A few years later, we find ourselves mired in an economic depression and the funds just are not there like they used to be. Let's face it. It's really cheap when you run in the Green and Blue groups. Tire and brake wear are minimal. And then the addiction turns ugly, for as you go faster, things wear out much quicker. Ugly, but fun, I may add.
Has anyone taken a look at the actual numbers? Think about it. You need to rent the track, pay insurance, pay the flaggers, etc. This is generally not an insignificant amount. And now let's say that there 30 cars each in Green and Blue, for a total of sixty folks needing instruction. So to have one student per instructor, you would need sixty instructors. And taking it one step further, these instructors want to drive for free. So now, between the Green, Blue and White goups, you would have only 90 paying customers. So if that would not cover the nut, prices would have to increase for those paying participants, which could possibly decrease demand. It becomes an ugly spiral.
So yes, you all want one student, and you all want to drive for free. And guess what? In these challenging economic times it is not going to happen. So it looks like you guys will need to "gut it out" until the economy recovers, at which time you could revisit this discussion, and possibly get what you want.
Just my opinion.
- Darren - 09-02-2009
ccm911 wrote:
Quote:In these challenging economic times it is not going to happen. So it looks like you guys will need to "gut it out" until the economy recovers, at which time you could revisit this discussion, and possibly get what you want.
Just my opinion.
No, no need to "gut it out" when there are plenty of free events to instruct for.
And I am trying to be constructive here by laying the issue out on the table. Another aspect of this is the tech inspection, and I've had this conversation with Paul many many times. Other clubs instructors (and even advanced DE students) self tech which saves $85. Yeah I know there are tech sessions but I'm not giving up a Saturday to save $60.
The key question is whether instructors are just doing other events or if they stopped doing events altogether.
- Larry Herman - 09-02-2009
IMHO it's a time thing and it's a racing thing.
FWIW I don't see having to pay $150 for an event as an overriding factor. More important is having the time at the event to enjoy yourself, and that is a challenge with 2 students. Maybe the instructors should have more time in their own run groups so that they can have an extra 10 minutes to breath, adjust the car etc.
If you went Red-Green-Blue-Black-White (repeat) then if you had 2 students you could handle them back 2 back with a nice long span of time between. In and out of a car every 15 minutes is a lousy way to spend a DE.
Finally, we are certainly losing some Instructors to Club Racing, but there is no way to counter that progression.