Red Flags Incident at The Glen

[JoeP]

I think that Tom's response on Saturday was perfect and would like to see it used more often.  Group learning experiences like that help not only the involved parties, but convince the rest of that the rules really are important.

On a rules-related topic, a handful of advanced participants repeatedly drove by the folks checking credentials and safety equipment at the gate before the hot pits.  One 'strap drove right by the gate check without acknowledging the presence of the workers, without slowing to check wristbands, and without wearing a helmet.  Unless there really are formal exemptions to RTR rules, such arrogance sends a bad message to blue and green students.

[larrybard]

JoeP wrote:

One 'strap drove right by the gate check without acknowledging the presence of the workers, without slowing to check wristbands, and without wearing a helmet.

Happens, in varying permutations, all the time. At the very least, there are slow drive-bys, long enough to display (usually) a wristband -- but not permitting confirmation that the passenger seat harnesses are secure.

Probably best solution: insist on a complete stop, if necessary physically blocking the car. (Not for the risk averse workers, especially when drivers are either late for their session or returning in mid-session.)

[Darren]

I would have sent the offenders home for sure.  Red flags are very very dangerous.

Public humiliation is TOTALLY out of line, in my opinion.  If a club did that to me, I'd never attend another event.

Flaggers make mistakes all the time, black flagging the wrong cars, etc...

Is it possible that they could report the wrong number car blew a red flag? Absolutely.

[larrybard]

Darren wrote:

Public humiliation is TOTALLY out of line, in my opinion. If a club did that to me, I'd never attend another event.

Actually, that was what I was obliquely asking about in my original post.

[Sechsgang]

I would say that 99/100 times, the PH isnt a good course of action. The one young guy should have been able to stand with the crowd. However, the other driver, as I mentioned, somehow decided to drive around all the parked cars and the incident...if that was for real, the extra 3-4 minutes of confusion could have costed a life. I dont know what the right answer really is, but something had to be done. The flagger had to RUN on track to stop this guy...



-Drew

[George3]

Darren wrote:

Public humiliation is TOTALLY out of line, in my opinion. If a club did that to me, I'd never attend another event.

Perhaps that was the underlying intent.

[dmano]

Gee lets see

Public humiliation   or

Death

I would take the humiliation or just not attend any more DE's if I could not stand the heat

Me I like my life.

Is some A/H is going to cause a wreck or death from his stupidity he or she should  account for the action.   

A little public inquest never hurt anyone but it would sure as hell keep them from ever doing it again.

What would you all have said if the driver had killed someone, even you but then you would be dead and then have no voice to say that driver should account for their actions



Now lets talk about the death penalty.

[Darren]

George3 wrote:

Perhaps that was the underlying intent.

Hehe, maybe But it was a lost opportunity to teach. If someone missed the red flag than they need to work on their awareness, they aren't "bad" people.

At Summit we black flagged a guy who had missed a flag earlier in the day. That's teaching, we see incorrect behavior and then we come up with a plan to resolve it.

If a person is so unaware that they miss a red flag, is it reasonable to assume they could also be unaware on the street? Absolutely! Driver's Ed isn't just about going faster, there are other skills we teach & learn also. Awareness is a big one!

Sometimes I'll see something ontrack that I know isn't right -- the cars don't seem like they are in a normal position, or there is a puff of smoke/dust/etc.. before I see a yellow flag. It's that kind of awareness and instant realization of a situation that comes with doing many many track days. The advanced guys all do this, they are looking way down the track and they see things happening before they happen.

[Sechsgang]

Honestly, I really think this one had to do with the one extreme violation of safety, rather than just a missed red flag...In the just missing the flag, I think instruction is most definitely the best thing that can occur from the incident. But many of these incidents are very specific in nature and should be handled in relatively different way as per the circumstances.


-Drew

[JoeP]

Tom's response was measured, and far from public humilitation.  I've seen worse repercussions on the golf course when someone's drive didn't make it past the women's tee.