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+--- Thread: Obama vs. Palin (/showthread.php?tid=1407)
- dmano - 09-04-2008
Sarah Palin vs. Barack Obama
Seems pretty clear to me who is the better ........
The track record does not lie.
By Gerard Baker
Democrats, between sniggers of derision and snorts of disgust, contend that Sarah Palin, John McCain's vice-presidential pick is ridiculously unqualified to be president.
It's a reasonable objection on its face except for this small objection: it surely needs to be weighed against the Democrats' claim that their own candidate for president is self-evidently ready to assume the role of most powerful person on the planet.
At first blush, here's what we know about the relative experience of the two candidates. Both are in their mid-forties and have held statewide elective office for less than four years. Both have admitted to taking illegal drugs in their youth.
So much for the similarities. How about the differences?
Political experience
Obama: Worked his way to the top by cultivating, pandering to and stroking the most powerful interest groups in the all-pervasive Chicago political machine, ensuring his views were aligned with the power brokers there.
Palin: Worked her way to the top by challenging, attacking and actively undermining the Republican party establishment in her native Alaska. She ran against incumbent Republicans as a candidate willing and able to clean the Augean Stables of her state's government.
Political Biography
Obama: A classic, if unusually talented, greasy-pole climber. Held a succession of jobs that constitute the standard route to the top in his party's internal politics: "community organizer", law professor, state senator.
Palin:A woman with a wide range of interests in a well-variegated life. Held a succession of jobs - sports journalist, commercial fisherwoman, state oil and gas commissioner, before entering local politics. A resume that suggests something other than burning political ambition from the cradle but rather the sort of experience that enables her to understand the concerns of most Americans..
Political history
Obama: Elected to statewide office only after a disastrous first run for a congressional seat and after his Republican opponent was exposed in a sexual scandal. Won seat eventually in contest against a candidate who didn't even live in the state.
Palin: Elected to statewide office by challenging a long-serving Republican incumbent governor despite intense opposition from the party.
Appeal
Obama: A very attractive speaker whose celebrity has been compared to that of Britney Spears and who sends thrills up Chris Matthews' leg
Palin: A very attractive woman, much better-looking than Britney Spears who speaks rather well too. She sends thrills up the leg of Rush Limbaugh (and me).
Executive experience
Obama: Makes executive decisions every day that affect the lives of his campaign staff and a vast crowd of traveling journalists
Palin:Makes executive decisions every day that affect the lives of 500,000 people in her state, and that impact crucial issues of national economic interest such as the supply and cost of energy to the United States.
Religious influences
Obama: Regards people who "cling" to religion and guns as "bitter" . Spent 20 years being mentored and led spiritually by a man who proclaimed "God damn America" from his pulpit. Mysteriously, this mentor completely disappeared from public sight about four months ago.
Palin: Head of her high school Fellowship of Christian Athletes and for many years a member of the Assemblies of God congregation whose preachers have never been known to accuse the United States of deliberately spreading the AIDS virus. They remain in full public sight and can be seen every Sunday in churches across Alaska. A proud gun owner who has been known to cling only to the carcasses of dead caribou felled by her own aim.
Record of bipartisan achievement
Obama: Speaks movingly of the bipartisanship needed to end the destructive politics of "Red America" and "Blue America", but votes in the Senate as a down-the-line Democrat, with one of the most liberal voting records in congress.
Palin: Ridiculed by liberals such as John Kerry as a crazed, barely human, Dick Cheney-type conservative but worked wit Democrats in the state legislature to secure landmark anti-corruption legislation.
Former state Rep. Ethan Berkowitz - a Democrat - said. "Gov. Palin has made her name fighting corruption within her own party, and I was honored when she stepped across party lines and asked me to co-author her ethics white paper."
On Human Life
Obama: Devoutly pro-choice. Voted against a bill in the Illinois state senate that would have required doctors to save the lives of babies who survived abortion procedures. The implication of this position is that babies born prematurely during abortions would be left alone, unnourished and unmedicated, until they died.
Palin: Devoutly pro-life. Exercised the choice proclaimed by liberals to bring to full term a baby that had been diagnosed in utero with Down Syndrome.
Now it's true there are other crucial differences. Sen Obama has appeared on Meet The Press every other week for the last four years. He has been the subject of hundreds of adoring articles in papers and newsweeklies and TV shows and has written two Emmy-award winning books.
Gov Palin has never appeared on Meet the Press, never been on the cover of Newsweek. She presumably feels that, as a mother of five children married to a snowmobile champion, who also happens to be the first woman and the youngest person ever to be elected governor of her state, she has not really done enough yet to merit an autobiography.
Then again, I'm willing to bet that if she had authored The Grapes of Wrath, sung like Edith Piaf and composed La Traviata , she still wouldn't have won an Emmy.
Fortunately, it will be up to the American people and not their self-appointed leaders in Hollywood and New York to determine who really has the better experience to be president.
Gerard Baker is US Editor and Assistant Editor of The Times of London. Email: gerard.baker@thetimes.co.uk
- emayer - 09-05-2008
Excellent summation!
While I don't agree with her entirely on social issues, I respect her beliefs and the willingness to stand by them in the face of adversity. Regardless of the outcome of this election, she will be a longstanding presence....
Seems like this election is boiling down to substance over style....
- nplenzick - 09-05-2008
Boy I was wondering when your next hate Obama post would be. You really don't get it do you? I even wonder if you believe in the two or more party system, or like Karl Rove just one absolute party........you know like Nazi Germany.
Yea Palin is going to be a real asset to this election........an asset to Obama. Mckane can kiss getting elected goodbye. Oh yea she doesn't believe in abortion in any circumstance which includes rape or incest. She also doesn't believe in any form of birth control ether. Creationism being taught in public schools is another classic.
I'll give her one thing she reads a script real well since that's what she was trained for. It'll be interesting to see how she handles reporters questions when she's interviewed, which she refuses to do at the moment.
She's one helluva mom too. Nothing like giving your 17 year old pregnant daughter nationwide if not worldwide attention. I'm sure she'll turn out to be just fine. Oh, passing the 4 month old around the other night on TV like a hot potato was family values at there best.
So far the best the republicans can do is to criticize Obama for being popular.
It didn't matter to me which candidate to me won as I thought both were a huge improvement over GW. That has all changed now with McKanes decision on Palin. Ridge or Romny would have been the logical choice.......not an extremist from Alaska.
Oh, since you didn't answer my question from your last post I'll ask it again. What are you going to do if Obama gets elected?
- ccm911 - 09-05-2008
Palin, what is there to say. If there can possibly be a greater annoyance that the dreaded "Soccer Mom", the term "Hockey Mom" would certainly be in the running. And kudos to the way you raised your daughter. I thought that 17 year olds only got married in Southern Trailer Parks and the Ozark Mountains. Guess I was wrong.
Why are Republicans so afraid of someone who will try to make a difference? And I can't help but notice that the majority of Republicans fancy themselves to be "budding Donald Trumps". Listen to them talk. Listen to them vehemently defend the tax breaks given to companies that ship our American jobs offshore. Listen to them bemoan the spending of funds on valid social programs. I could go on and on. But the fact of the matter is that most of these folks doing the talking are firmly entrenched in the middle class.
What we need is for oil to go up much higher. This will finally get America back on track with regards to the deelopment of alternative energy sources. This in turn would create new industries that would provide a decent living wage to the workers. Not to mention that higher oil prices would encourage more American based production of goods. So that even more folks could find better jobs, and the better lifestyle that results.
It really burns me up when I see ads fom large corporations touting all the good they do for society. Who died and made them god? Who lined their pockets, enrichening them to the point that they feel the need to "give back". How did this all come about?
Come on, do I really have to spoon feed everything?
- dmano - 09-05-2008
So she is pregnant at 17 so the F$%^K what. So was my mom Do I live in a trailer park I don't think so. You all need to get your heads out of your asses. Who cares. I am Pro- Choice but still think that her track record speaks for itself. So why don't' all you Obama lovin pansies tell me what he has done for this country. Not a F^$king thing. I don't talk about doing things, I do them not unlike him.....
Please list all he has done for the USA that has helped our country or his state.
1
2
3
4
Please vote for him and watch the country go down the shitter. He is the typical politician unlike Palin.
At least she kills things and eats them.
- dmano - 09-05-2008
nplenzick wrote:
Quote:Boy I was wondering when your next hate Obama post would be. You really don't get it do you? I even wonder if you believe in the two or more party system, or like Karl Rove just one absolute party........you know like Nazi Germany.
Oh, since you didn't answer my question from your last post I'll ask it again. What are you going to do if Obama gets elected?
I think the two party system sucks, there should be as many as needed to get this country back on top.
If he does get elected I am going to sit back and wait for the USA become a shit hole. This country will become the joke of the world. Just you wait and see.
- AMoore - 09-05-2008
Palin could not convince her daughter the virtures of abstinence. Oh well, may she can convince Putin to stay out of Georgia. Interesting that bill o'reilly said that Jamie Lynn Spears' pregnancy was her mother's fault.
Why is it that the Republicans are focusing more on Obama's qualifications than on the issues. McCain's campaign spokesman actually stated that this election is not about issues its about personalities. Sheeeesh!. Are you kidding me?
By the way, how can increased military spending + tax cuts = lower deficit.
Hey, this is interesting - from the Assoicated Press (Is the AP part of the "liberal media" ) What? a few fibs were told at the convention? No . . . . ?
ST. PAUL, Minn. — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.
Some examples:
PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."
THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."
PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform _ not even in the state senate."
THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.
PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."
THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.
Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.
He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.
MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.
THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state _ by population.
MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.
THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.
FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."
THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.
FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right _ change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington _ throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."
THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.
___
Associated Press Writer Jim Drinkard in Washington contributed to this report.
- Wellardmac - 09-05-2008
Don't you love the extremists on both sides? I just wish that some could see the good and bad in both sides and speak with moderation, rather than clinging to their polar views.
Both conventions reminded me of the Nuremberg rallies... do we really think that's a good image for the world to see? Mindless morons shouting "USA!" without thought to thinking critically about any of the information they are being spoon fed. Both sides twist the truth and lie to suit their needs and feed their mindless party base - those that drink the nectar without thinking.
We should be ashamed that this is the best image we can project to the world.
I my mind this election is depressing because the candidates from both sides are pitiful.
In my mind it's not a question of who is best qualified to be president. It's a question of who will harm our country least. I dislike both candidates AND their VP picks.
Right now the best circumstance we can hope for is a split of powers so that neither side can continue the damage of the last 8 years, or inflict their own particular brand of devastation.
I would love to see congress in the hands of one party and the administration in the hands of another... oh, yes, we have that right now, a Congress is intent on passing worthless laws - 3000 of them since they were elected that achieved little of substance. National Watermelon Day. Say no more.
The Democrats were elected to congress on a spirit of change - not only have they failed to achieve that, they didn't even try to achieve it. They should go fire themselves in embarrassment - Despite their bluster they did nothing to reverse the damage that had been done, or limit future damage. When push came to shove, they capitulated and went with the flow... more surveillance? No problem! Immunity for telecoms? No problem? less freedom to protest? No problem! Limiting government spending? sorry, can't do that.
I feel sick to my stomach just thinking about it. Makes you want to go out and start a revolution... oh, sorry, don't have the freedom to do that anymore, that would make you a terrorist.
Anyone who supports either party should be ashamed.
As I said, my decision at this point is that I'm loathed to vote for any of these idiots, it's just a question of who will mess up the country less. When I figure that out I'll cast my vote.
- nplenzick - 09-05-2008
dmano wrote:
Quote:nplenzick wrote:What a great American you are! You should be proud of yourself. Lets not give the guy a chance because you know your right.Quote:
I think the two party system sucks, there should be as many as needed to get this country back on top.
If he does get elected I am going to sit back and wait for the USA become a shit hole. This country will become the joke of the world. Just you wait and see.
- nplenzick - 09-05-2008
dmano wrote:
Quote:So she is pregnant at 17 so the F$%^K what. So was my mom Do I live in a trailer park I don't think so. You all need to get your heads out of your asses. Who cares. I am Pro- Choice but still think that her track record speaks for itself. So why don't' all you Obama lovin pansies tell me what he has done for this country. Not a F^$king thing. I don't talk about doing things, I do them not unlike him.....
Please list all he has done for the USA that has helped our country or his state.
1
2
3
4
Please vote for him and watch the country go down the shitter. He is the typical politician unlike Palin.
At least she kills things and eats them.
Are you sure you didn't grow up in a trailer park? Geez what language!
What'a mom Palin is, what a complete disregard for her 17 year old and the ridicule that only that 17 year old pears can give. So when your mom got pregnant did she make sure it was front page news. Palin is 44 she had plenty of time to run for national politics. Ten years from now she would have been young enough and her family would have been far enough along that she could have pursued her political dreams. I would think 5 kids, one pregnant and one severely handicapped and being the governor of Alaska would keep you busy.