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+--- Thread: stock performance at the track (/showthread.php?tid=2014)
- AMoore - 11-13-2009
We often see stock lamborghini's Aston Martins and Z06 vettes driven by beginners out in green and blue run groups. I am curious as to how these cars perform in red or black compared to a fully track sorted 911.
I would like to hear from Steve H. who has now had a chance to drive a GTR on a dry track.
- Darren - 11-13-2009
The Vettes are very fast. Geza's car is totally stock with R-compound tires and he is flying.
- Darren - 11-13-2009
I've never seen a Lambo at the track. Aston Martin = fat pig.
- George3 - 11-13-2009
I have seen Gallardo's and Ferrari's at Ferrari events down at Summit Point. They're OK, but don't seem to go around the track very well. I'm sure a lot of that is driver and setup, b/c these guys are only out there to have a little fun with their toys. However, there was a Ferrari Challenge Car there and he was super fast!
Vettes are the deal of the century. Particularly the Z06, but you're not going to be able to drive them stock as would the Green and Blue drivers. Beginners can basically drive the pants off of these cars and keep them bone stock, but that's because they're not driving as hard as would a Black or Red Run Group driver.
Once you start pushing the car - any car - you start to need R-Comp tires, stiffer bars, better brake pads or even a BBK, higher temp brake fluid, etc. And, when carrying a lot more speed than Green or Blue, safety equipment becomes a must. And the beat goes on, but that's just the nature of the animal.
So comparing to a fully sorted 911 "with" all of the track goodies and safety equipment, it becomes a matter of which car suits you better. Everyone will have a different answer, because driving styles are different and the cars behave differently. I'm very fortunate to have had the privilege of tracking 5 very different cars and I can assure you there are huge differences between each of them.
Before you pull the trigger on something, try to take it out on the track to see if it's what you want. Driving it on the street doesn't even begin to tell you the whole story.
GL
- NOGO65 - 11-13-2009
Aaron
I by no means qualify myself as a track car expert but I can give you some insight as to what Steve has told me during and after each event about the GT-R. If you do a search for GT-R on the message boards, Steve has posted a few times in other threads reguarding its' performance.
Flat out, for a car completely out of the box stock, it is the most amazing car he says he has ever driven. For a 3900 pound pig, running 20" run flat tires it can run with all but the fastest modified cars. When or if 20" R Comps are introduced, (hopefully next year) the car will be just that more amazing.
My first track experience, I was a passenger with Steve driving the GT-R around the Glen. Pulling nearly 2 G's in Turns 6 and 7. Needless to say, I've been hooked ever since.
When I was searching for a car, the Z06 was also near the top of list. IMO, I'm sure the Z06 is equally impressive to drive but for someone like myself who is learning, the Z06 would be alot harder to drive at my limits then the GT-R is.
Even Steve Meanan got a chance to drive it at Pocono and his exact words when he got out of the car was "holy f**k!"
I'm sure when Steve gets a moment, he will give you somemore in depth "play by play."
Jim
- emayer - 11-13-2009
Aaron,
I have wrestled with this topic plenty, a few thoughts:
Some of you guys may know me from having driven a 997 turbo and an R8 in the lower run groups. Given a choice between the two, my nod goes to the R8 for its handling and enjoyment. The fringe benefit of course is that they are great machines for daily use. Presently, I am pending a V10 build which is a story for another day but has now given rise to a new dilemma.
I have been fortunate enough to advance to the white group, where the game now begins to change. The concerns arising from running something like the R8 are maintenance costs, parts, safety gear/seats (no readily avail stuff here), insurance, and god forbid the increasing risk of damaging or balling up an expensive car.
Fundamentally, I believe the question relates to what one seeks from DE. If it is to experiment occasionally with an exotic/ unusual car than something along the lines you've mentioned makes sense. On the other hand, if the goal is to focus on driver skill development and pushing the envelope I'd lean toward a more track ready machine.
I haven't made a final decision yet myself but I'm leaning toward converting the 997 into a more track specific car, perhaps using the R8 for occasional events.....
- AMoore - 11-13-2009
I guess to put it simply . . .
If one of our faster drivers was driving a stock R8, GTR, Z06, or the like, something with a zero - 60 in less than 4 secs, and close to a 70 mph slalom run, on street tires, would they turn a faster lap than say a 993 or 996 with a full track set up? Would they break a minute on Pocono North? Trust me, I am in no position to buy one of these "supercars," I just though it would be a neat topic.
- emayer - 11-13-2009
That's a legit question.
If we use 'ring times as a reference (this assumes drivers are comparable) it is likely that most current exotics would be faster than a setup 993/996. Of course there will be exceptions. The real message is just how far automotive technologies continue to develop over a relatively short time. Arguably, driver skill and involvement may suffer as a consequence but it's hard to debate the result....
Having other cars like the GTR, Vettes, Minis, and the golfball VW in DE makes things far more interesting IMHO. It's great seeing their potential unleashed!
- bobt993 - 11-13-2009
Aaron,
Absolutely under a minute. I have driven several street cars around North course under a minute with the owner in the car. Fast cars with lots of HP have no problem doing this and the driver needs to do little to make it happen. I have to work pretty hard to get under 58 secs in my car, but it is always work in progress to get faster and moderate HP cars make up time in mid-corner speed where improving is only worth .1 secs at a time.
- NOGO65 - 11-13-2009
Funny you asked about lap times at Pocono.
Steve was running consistantly 1:00 flat in the GT-R with me as the passenger (I'm 235lbs) and Im sure if he was totally honest, he was leaving some on the table because it's not his car to beat on. I timed him last weekend @ Thunderbolt running 1:35 and change.
What impresses me the most about the GT-R (and Eric, Im sure you feel similiar about the R8) is that the only thing I have to "modify" to get it track ready is slap some numbers on the side. When the weekend is done, I pack up and drive the thing home.