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+--- Thread: PCA vs BMWCCA (/showthread.php?tid=1257)
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- catchacab - 07-29-2008
I hear from some of our members that attend other events (PCA and non-PCA) that many non-RTR drivers are slower than the standard RTR driver for that run group.
Maybe the problem is we (including me) are too concerned about speed.
- Phokaioglaukos - 07-30-2008
Geoff911sc wrote:
Quote:Hope to see you all at the RTR event @ the Glen or the Del VAL BMW event @ Thunderbolt (their 3rd of 5 events this year!).Geoff, good to see you here. I'll be at both, car gods permitting.
- michael lang - 07-30-2008
Yes Geoff, welcome. I'm not definitely not trying to start any s&$% and I'm not saying PCA is a better club. I have many friends that are BMWCCA members, they just don't do DE's. I watched an event, noticed something different about it that I don't normally see at Porsche events. I thought about it and decided to ask what other people thought about how different clubs have their DE program and what they try to focus on. For the record, I'll gladly sign the waiver with one of their instructors to get whatever seat time I can. Geoff, whenever you are at Summit, please let me know. I'm right around the corner from there so I can come out on a moments notice.
- Darren - 07-30-2008
catchacab wrote:
Quote:Maybe the problem is we (including me) are too concerned about speed.
Maybe...More I think we've traditionally been a little more conservative with run group promotions compared to some other clubs. We take the responsibility of promotions very seriously because, for example, if someone gets promoted to white and runs with other groups, they may never see an instructor again. This is also why sometimes you'll see the white run group blitz, where instructors jump in all of the cars -- just to take a checkpoint to make sure everything is going right.
I was at a NASA Northeast/PDA event where the group 2 guys, essentially blue, are mostly non-instructed. It drove me nuts because I only had 1 student in group 1 and I ended up riding with several group 2 guys just to try to help keep them safe, and teaching them very very basic stuff. I saw one guy spin twice without an instructor, and felt a responsibility to ride with him -- I think most PCA instructors would do the same thing.
Each club has their own culture -- NASA is very racing oriented, and many guys that go through that program start racing relatively early in their career. I was a little different -- I didn't do my first race until I had well over 100 days at the track. I think most SCCA/NASA racers have far less experience before their first race. Most PCA racers I know learned to drive in PCA DE.
SCCA can be the same way -- you can get a racing license after doing a 3-day Bertil Roos school. Many people start racing without having the experience of even our blue or white drivers.
- Darren - 07-30-2008
Another example -- Jason M. finished 8th out of 21 in Spec e30 this past weekend in his first ever race! He's been doing RTR DE events for 15+ years, and obviously that experience paid off.
- michael lang - 07-31-2008
Darren wrote:
Quote:Another example -- Jason M. finished 8th out of 21 in Spec e30 this past weekend in his first ever race! He's been doing RTR DE events for 15+ years, and obviously that experience paid off.
That's exactly what I was getting at. Doing DE's is a huge benefit as a basis for a racer, but also pays off big on the street. It was like most of the drivers I spoke with couldn't grasp that concept.