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+--- Thread: Porsche 918 (/showthread.php?tid=2130)
- ccm911 - 03-04-2010
I've gotta side with Darren and Joe on this one.
Electric cars are not the answer. If GM thinks that the VOLT will be their salvation, they are truly misguided. I for one, would never drive some stupid electric car. Why would I want something that has a limited range, excess weight and piss-poor looks(New Porsche Included). Battery technology is just not there yet. And of course, there is the previously mentioned pollution brought on by the excess electricity production that will be required. And have I mentioned the expense of replacing the battery pack?
I get the feeling the BMW will ultimately develop Hydrogen technology, and blow these other pretenders right out of the water!
Electric car my ass!!!
- AMoore - 03-04-2010
ccm911 wrote:
Quote:I've gotta side with Darren and Joe on this one.
Electric cars are not the answer. If GM thinks that the VOLT will be their salvation, they are truly misguided. I for one, would never drive some stupid electric car. Why would I want something that has a limited range, excess weight and piss-poor looks(New Porsche Included). Battery technology is just not there yet. And of course, there is the previously mentioned pollution brought on by the excess electricity production that will be required. And have I mentioned the expense of replacing the battery pack?
I get the feeling the BMW will ultimately develop Hydrogen technology, and blow these other pretenders right out of the water!
Electric car my ass!!!
Are people not reading before they post? I am not a propenent of electric cars. I am a proponent of hybrids, which do not have poor range, or require a plug in recharge. The liquid-cooled lithium-ion battery pack behind the cockpit of the 918 can be charged at home, or by brake regeneration.
I absolutely agree that electric plug in cars are not the answer. I do think that hydrogen power is the future.
- Darren - 03-04-2010
So show me the math that recovering braking energy saves more money than it costs.
- cjbcpa - 03-04-2010
I think hydrogen technology faces the same economic hurdles as electricity. It is incredible expensive to provide (ironically, requires large amount of electricity IIRC).
IMHO, the technology that makes the most sense today is natural gas. Its abundant, domestic, and produces significantly lower carbon emissions. The technology to convert large fleets as well as heavy vehicles already exists and the distribution infrastructure is largely place. From there it is not a huge leap to create consumer natural gas powered vehicles. Most of today's internal combustion engines can run on natural gas with modifications too.
Brought to you by the domestic natural gas industry (just kidding, I really believe what I wrote)
CB
- Darren - 03-04-2010
Yeah..Natural Gas and Nuclear power....
- emayer - 03-04-2010
AMoore wrote:
Quote:emayer wrote:Quote:The lack of design uniqueness nowadays stems from significant government restrictions in emissions, mileage, safety, etc.
When something unique sells, it is no longer unique.
Nonetheless, irrespective of goverment regualtions, cars are exponentially faster, more efficient, more user friendly, and safer than they were just a few years ago. As long as there is competition, cars will get better.
It is true that government regulation in the 70s yeilded garbage vehicles. That is becasue there was much less competition then.
True cars are better than in the 70s. False that there is more competition. Compared to the 70s there are now only a few automotive conglomerates with brands sharing technologies throughout. Porsche itself is one of the more recent victims. The reason this happens is simply cost containment and fleet compliance in the setting of increasing regulation. That's why Volvo engines/chassis are showing up in Fords, Subaru motors in SAABs, the list goes on. The lack of engineering/design "uniqueness" here has nothing to do with popularity.
I think Joe's points about energy are spot on. The electric hybrid movement in the end is just a form of NIMBY, passing the environmental consequences somewhere else. Natural gas may be the best option discussed so far, more so that it can be harvested here in the US.
- AMoore - 03-04-2010
Darren wrote:
Quote:So show me the math that recovering braking energy saves more money than it costs.Obviously it is impossible to calcualte unless milage and length of ownership are factored. Nonetheless, like everything else, costs will come down, and the environmental impact is certainly less. No, I am not talking about global warning, I am simply talking about air pollution, especially in the city, where hybrids are most effective.
- JoeP - 03-04-2010
In the end, we like to think that we are better human beings than we are, and that we really give a damn about the Environment. We don't, but electric cars make us feel good about ourselves.
Over the past 40 years, the auto industry has delivered incredible advances in efficiency, safety, and emissions. What do we do? We ask them to build cars that accelerate faster than ever and have top speeds 50 MPH higher than the late 1960's. In addition, the Euro and Japanese manufacturers respond by giving us cars that are 50% heavier than their 1975 offerings. Let's celebrate the fact that humans are speed sluts and drop this facade that we care about Mother Earth.
- CarreraS - 03-04-2010
Picked up a couple of new cars the other day including a new SUV for my wife. Considered a hybrid, but here's the problem:
Model Base Price HP 0-60 MPG
ML350 $45,700 286-hp 7.9 15/20
ML450 Hybrid $55,000 335-hp 7.8 21/24
Even with taking the $2,200 tax credit for the hybrid into account...why do I want to buy a hybrid?
- asher681 - 03-04-2010
Diesel!!
The rest of the world has learned that Diesels get almost twice the MPG as their gas counterparts, a Jetta diesel gets better MPG than a Prius under REAL driving conditions..... Increasing the # of passenger diesel powered vechiles in the US could cut Foreign crude consumption in half & with technology currently available diesel can be produced from algae (BIO) to coal. Yes coal, the Nazi's developed the process in WW II & one raw material Pennsylvania has, is plenty of coal ....
As for nuclear power, the French ( Who build most the the facilities in the rest of the world) recycle 95% of nuclear waste, we simply bury the waste in a mountain in the middle of no where !!!
My 2 cents....Joe