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+--- Thread: Shuffle Steering (/showthread.php?tid=2135)
- Marty Kocse - 04-14-2010
Tony356993 wrote:
Quote:I think in addition to what has been stated about the speed of the steering system and the size of the steering wheel, one must also include the size of the driver. I did shuffle steer in the 993 and it became second nature for me. When one has only a 28" inseam, one must sit very close to the steering wheel to be able to control the pedals optimally. This situation makes getting past 6:00 very difficult. On turns that required that amount of steering, I would first move the hand in the turning direction up to say 1-2:00 then move my other hand to say 7-8:00 to be able to have the utmost control in the turn and any corrections needed. I would then shuffle back to 9 and 3. All of this is of course one hand at a time and does require a lot of practice to get smooth. I would not recommend this technique but in the 993 it was a must for me. The 911 had a much smaller wheel and the seat position was lower and I rarely had to shuffle steer.
I have the exact same issue as Tony with short legs/arms and having to be too close to the wheel. In addition, I broke both of my wrists growing up so they don't bend quite like they should either. So, let's just say I have had to shuffle steer from the beginning in my 996 and it hasn't been an issue. Now that I think about it, Tony was the person to first show me the technique because I was a little all over the place at first - so I think his comments are worth noting...
- opus - 04-15-2010
Maybe this is a different situation than HPDE or track driving. I rode with an instructor around their road course auto-x in Limerock. The instructor is a pro-rally driver. In a MX-5 Miata, he used shuffle steering, and sometimes used only the finger tips and held on to the bottom of the wheel. (At that time, I did not know any better to ask why.) Does rally driving or auto-x differs from DE driving as far as holding on to the steering wheel then?
- betegh9 - 04-15-2010
opus wrote:
Quote:Maybe this is a different situation than HPDE or track driving. I rode with an instructor around their road course auto-x in Limerock. The instructor is a pro-rally driver. In a MX-5 Miata, he used shuffle steering, and sometimes used only the finger tips and held on to the bottom of the wheel. (At that time, I did not know any better to ask why.) Does rally driving or auto-x differs from DE driving as far as holding on to the steering wheel then?
by driving with your fingertips, 9, 3 or whatever, you learn to feel the grip of your front wheel/ tires. The death grip (white knockles) mutes the feedback. Try it now with your eyes closed........... ALL your other senses become more acute.
hock::dude::dude: No kidding, but don't try this at home, it may be bad for your health. 
- David 41 - 04-19-2010
Shuffle steering, to be or not to be. I was never a shuffle steerer until I went to the SCCA's driver schools for my competition license. In the SCCA Northeast Region it is a requirement that the students shuffle steer (at lest it was in 2004). Now I shuffle steer all the time. It was easy to learn and has never left me in trouble.
Since I've been doing DE nearly all my instructors have not been so keen on it, but I'm not sure I can break this learned pattern, having never been on a race track without doing it.
Larry, if you're wanting advice and and I an not an expert, it's my opinion that I would avoid shuffling.
Since my steering wheel is too large to crank over on tight turns I am going to acquire a smaller steering wheel and do my best to discontinue shuffling.
Regards,
David
- Darren - 04-19-2010
I thought about this thread during a race at Summit Point this weekend. I noticed I was shuffling all through the bottom part of the track, from T5-T8. In that case it seemed necessary because I was driving so close to the limit and if I had my hands fixed then I'd have no ability to turn the wheel the other way. I do it very infrequently but that's definitely one place I use it.
- Racingswh - 04-22-2010
I think it was in the book by Alain Prost - Competition Driving where he made mention of the fact that the most important thing to do was get the job done smoothly and accurately regardless of how it's done. Arms flailing about hands crossed and going quickly was better than perfect form and going slow I recall he said.
I personally am not a shuffle steer person. I do move my hands on the wheel but only because of the significant number of turns lock to lock street cars or street car based racing cars typically have. One thing that is disconcerting to me and feels as if it upsets the car is when someone will let the wheel slide quickly in their hands and then abruptly grab the wheel. The car then does this waver/wiggle back and forth thing that doesn't feel to right to me. I think that if you can not be smooth then you should not shuffle steer.
Steve W. Hoagland
- larrybard - 04-23-2010
Racingswh wrote:
Quote:. . . . One thing that is disconcerting to me and feels as if it upsets the car is when someone will let the wheel slide quickly in their hands and then abruptly grab the wheel. The car then does this waver/wiggle back and forth thing that doesn't feel to right to me. I think that if you can not be smooth then you should not shuffle steer.I certainly don't pretend to have encyclopedic knowledge of the subject -- indeed, I was the one who first posted the question about shuffle steering (but after reading a bit about it) -- but I have never read any description of acceptable shuffle steering technique involving letting the steering wheel slide in [both] the driver's hands. I think it is inconsistent with one of the basic principles of good driving, i.e., having at least one hand in firm control of the wheel at all times.
- TwentySix - 04-23-2010
larrybard wrote:
Quote:I certainly don't pretend to have encyclopedic knowledge of the subject -- indeed, I was the one who first posted the question about shuffle steering (but after reading a bit about it)I shuffle steer when appropriate, which also means on the street in my DD F250 Crew Cab Turbo Diesel... but a good point here is that you keep seeking out how to improve. When I hear the debate on this topic and others like it (LFB, etc) I wonder why it's an issue? Clearly, it works for some and not others, but drivers shouldn't be discouraged from trying different ideas out, that's how you go faster--when you figure out what works for you and direct your energies toward it...
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- geza - 04-23-2010
Larry, a couple of things:
1. Smooth is always good!
2. Don’t try this on your own. That is what DE is all about. You may not have been shown the correct procedure.
Vic Elford, author of Porsche High Performance Driving Handbook in this month’s Panorama writes:
“For normal driving the hands should always be positioned at roughly 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock on the wheel and for most highway driving there is no need to let go of the wheel. With the seat correctly positioned, you should be able to turn the wheel at least half a turn without letting go of it. In tighter situations, such as narrow city streets and parking lots, then repositioning of the hands will be necessary and this should always be done by "shuffle steering." The term "shuffle steering" means exactly that; shuffling the wheel from hand to hand but always keeping the left hand on the left side somewhere between the 7 and 11 position and the right hand on the right side between the 1 and 5 position. For a left turn, for example, the right hand will take the wheel from the 3 position to the 1 position, whereupon the left hand will take it from the 11 position to the 7 position. If you still need more turn, the right hand will take over at the 5 position and continue up to the 1 position and so on.�?
- JoeP - 04-23-2010
...oh, I don't know if I agree with that logic. Sports are full of habits that work in the short run, but limit your long term growth. A friend of mine still switches hands when playing tennis because he never developed a strong backhand.
Although we are forced to shuffle in cars with many turns lock-to-lock, it adds an opportunity for inconsistency. Breaking that habit might be tough if you intend to participate in higher classes of driving with more capable cars. If you're running a '64 Catalina - not so much.