+- Riesentöter Forums (https://rtr-pca.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Club Activities (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Forum: Driver's Education (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=29)
+--- Thread: Cones: turn in, apex and track out, or not? (/showthread.php?tid=358)
- Sechsgang - 03-10-2007
From the other tracks I have been to, the cones for the first day were really nice...just a bit of help learning the track...
BUT...they acutally get annoying later on because I know every once and awhile I would acutally get caught up in "Oh crap, turn NOW" rather then just taking it a bit earlier or later but smoother...
I dont know if its a possibility, but having a cone at the trackout point all the time could be a nice idea for the B&G groups because from what I have seen (limited experience of course) was people just dont track out as far as they should...simply because they dont know how far is acceptable...also, with just that one cone, I would guess that advanced people wouldnt get too annoyed with just the one cone...
- Brian Minkin - 03-10-2007
Sechsgang wrote:
Quote:From the other tracks I have been to, the cones for the first day were really nice...just a bit of help learning the track...
BUT...they acutally get annoying later on because I know every once and awhile I would acutally get caught up in "Oh crap, turn NOW" rather then just taking it a bit earlier or later but smoother...
I dont know if its a possibility, but having a cone at the trackout point all the time could be a nice idea for the B&G groups because from what I have seen (limited experience of course) was people just dont track out as far as they should...simply because they dont know how far is acceptable...also, with just that one cone, I would guess that advanced people wouldnt get too annoyed with just the one cone...
A couple of points to what you wrote.
Taking a turn in later is fine but early turn in leads to running out of track or what I refer to as an Oh SH___ moment. Corners are one continuous precision movement. Where you start affects where you end
So as to only having a track out cone, If you do not turn in at the correct marker then you are not going to be anywhere near the track out cone on exit. If you are falling short of the track out cone its probably because you are turning in too early and have an early apex. As you get faster you will find yourself needing to correct and pinch the exit which could likely lead to a spin if you lift or dropping two wheels off. Cones teach where to be on the track and you need three cones per corner for them to be an instructional aid.
- Tony356993 - 03-10-2007
I look at it like this-
My Mom spent 2+ years looking for a new home and it had to have the perfect dining room to hold Thanksgiving dinner. I kept trying to explain to her in my little black & white world that it is a bit short sighted to find a new home to spend the next 20 years and make your decision based on 1 day a year.
If the majority of drivers and track management feel there is a benefit from removing the cones, then we should remove the cones. The down side for a few drivers (& instructors) might be a necessary evil to appease the masses.
I feel that removing the cones "forces" drivers to adjust their vision and scan more of the track. It help ease the tunnel vision.
Nice dialog on this thread.
- Sechsgang - 03-10-2007
In responce to Brian Minikin,
we got a great OS line chalk talk at Skip...haha, one of the "funnier" talks of the classroom...
Im just saying that I think ALL the cones should be up the first day, and then the track out the next ones rather then none at all...thats all...
Also,by turning early or late, Im not talking about drastic early or late turns, say by only +/- 1.5 feet...I was just saying that when that cone is there, alot of my classmates I saw thought the cone was pracially a wall...and I saw more then a few classmates brake WAY too quickly/hard and lock up the non-abs brakes and completely disrupt the "train".
Not even a week away!!!
- Marty Kocse - 03-11-2007
How about this?
We could simply have the cones up for the first session of each day
<Or>
We could have the cones up for the entire first day and the first session of each subsequent day. That might not be too bad.
- Tony356993 - 03-11-2007
Marty,
Be careful, they may ask you to do all the setup, removal, setup, removal, etc....
- smankow - 03-11-2007
Marty Kocse wrote:
Quote:How about this?ladies and gentlemen, we have a volunteer
We could simply have the cones up for the first session of each day
<Or>
We could have the cones up for the entire first day and the first session of each subsequent day. That might not be too bad.
- jakp993 - 03-11-2007
Yeah - setting the cones is a royal PITA, especially on a course like Shenandoah. Myles & I did them last year and it took approx 3/4 hour. You'd be surprised how different the course looks when you are doing this vs. driving at speed.
So if I have to do them, once they are taken down they're gonna stay down :X
A slew of qualified volunteers could change that opinion
Jack
- bobt993 - 03-11-2007
Chris, not everyone agreed. I can tell you from the instructors meeting that it was less than 50%. Reason for me. I had a first time student, first track. He did great, but initial references would have moved us forward more quickly. Telling someone they are 2ft late or 2ft early is hard when they are still learning the track. Cones are an initial reference and help develope communication with the instructor/student. Once their is a good reference for a newbie, you can take the cones and practice bowling in the pits with your spare tire. BTW some of the reference marks at SP are so small that from the passenger seat it is difficult to tell if the drive hit them exactly.
- jakp993 - 03-11-2007
jakp993 wrote:
Quote:So if I have to do them, once they are taken down they're gonna stay downJust noticed, I should have said "if they are taken down"...