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- dmano - 04-01-2008
I am not sure, but I question him flip flopping from Muslim to Christian a few years ago, from his mentor the"asshole preacher", to his now beliefs. He has been changing too much to fit in so he can get elected. He is nothing but a regular politician he does what it takes to get the vote. Lies Lies Lies
He has changed his back round beliefs like I change my dirty skid marked........... Well you know.
- AMoore - 04-01-2008
dmano wrote:
Quote:What do you all think of Osama taking his oath on the Quran when he was elected to the senate.I suppose this is the price we pay for free speech. Unfortunately we cannot require that people actually look into an issue before making an inaccurate factual statement. We are not talking about an opinion here.
In fact, Obama has never been a Muslim. He was raised in secular household, attending both a Catholic and muslim school, and later in life became a Christian. He took the oath of office with a Bible, not the Quoran. Keith Ellison, a congressman from Minnesota took his oath on the Quoran. Also, please recognize that the Quoran, like the Bible and the Constitution is open to interpretation. Radical extremists do not have the same beliefs as most muslims. Christian Fundamentalists do not have the same beliefs as most Christians.
- dmano - 04-01-2008
praise alaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hahahahahahh
- nplenzick - 04-01-2008
emayer wrote:
Quote:nplenzick wrote:Quote:emayer wrote:Quote:No intervention in stabilizing the mortgage crisis. Allow free market forces to play this out. A harsh and costly lesson indeed on the scale of the Great Depression, but one that will likely strengthen individual's and governmental fiscal responsibility moving forward.
Consider the creation of industrial zones with loosening of some environmental restrictions in these dedicated areas. Alternatively, taxation of industries within these areas can be reduced to assist in environmental compliance. Geographic consolidation will permit companies to collectively address environmental issues further reducing cost burden.
Aggressive pursuit of alternative energies including the reintroduction of nuclear power.
I agree with most of what you have suggested except these three statements.
I'm all for not bailing failing financial institutions but right now we have to do what ever it takes to keep this country out of a depression. Maybe your parents weren't old enough to live through it but mine were. It's something you and your children do not want to experience, believe me!
Why give any consideration to loosening environmental standards to industry? Unless you want this industrial zone in your backyard. This is just a step backwards as far as I'm concerned and just another excuse as to why we can't be competitive in the market place.
Nuclear power, well if and when they can ever make the disposal of the waste safe, then maybe. But I still remember what happened at Three Mile Island and how close we came to a complete melt down.
Good points!
My parents grew up during and in post-war Germany, our families essentially having to rebuild from rubble. I would argue that such hardships endear people with a greater appreciation of family, community, and civic responsibility which is sorely missing in this nation at present.
I agree that we shouldn't necessarily loosen environmental standards, just consolidate industries geographically to minimize environmental impact and contain costs. There are additional logistical benefits in doing this which would only benefit corporations. As an aside, there is a new coal powered energy plant not 3 miles from my house. You would never know its presence.
No one wants a nuclear plant in their backyard, but there are plenty of desolate regions throughout the country where these could be safely located. The technologies and saftery mecahnisms have evolved greatly since the 3-mile island accident of the 1970s. If you have the time, pull up a schematic of the Rhine, there are literally dozens of reactors along the borders!
As we have all said, meaningful change will require sacrifice and risk and you have correctly pointed out some of the concerns. Are we willing to accept these? Are there reasonable alternatives?
As for Obama and the Koran, I personally couldn't care less though I'm a bit perplexed. I know his father was Muslim, but isn't Obama Christian? If so, what was the intent of using the Koran if not to make some sort of statement? What is the message?
I'm no expert on post Word War II but didn't we help to some extent in the rebuilding process? Who's going to help us if we enter a depression? A depression that could very well be worse then what my parents lived through.
A coal fired plant my not be a problem at your house, but 100 miles down wind it could be causing a big problem. A quick ride through the higher elevations of the Appalachian mts and you'll see vast areas of acid rain damage. I don't know what our energy solutions are but it's something we should have our brightest scientists working on, not special interests!
Industries for the most part have been consolidated by local zoning laws. I for one wouldn't want the feds getting involved.
- emayer - 04-01-2008
AMoore wrote:
Quote:dmano wrote:Quote:What do you all think of Osama taking his oath on the Quran when he was elected to the senate.I suppose this is the price we pay for free speech. Unfortunately we cannot require that people actually look into an issue before making an inaccurate factual statement. We are not talking about an opinion here.
In fact, Obama has never been a Muslim. He was raised in secular household, attending both a Catholic and muslim school, and later in life became a Christian. He took the oath of office with a Bible, not the Quoran. Keith Ellison, a congressman from Minnesota took his oath on the Quoran. Also, please recognize that the Quoran, like the Bible and the Constitution is open to interpretation. Radical extremists do not have the same beliefs as most muslims. Christian Fundamentalists do not have the same beliefs as most Christians.
+1
I rooted around the internet to determine the origins of this myth. Politics as usual? (Article posted)
Obama used a Koran? No, he didn't
By Angie Drobnic Holan
Published on Thursday, December 20th, 2007 at 01:23 p.m.[/b]
SUMMARY: An anonymous e-mail claims Barack Obama is a Muslim, attended a madrassa as a boy and took the oath of office on a Koran. The Truth-O-Meter says wrong, wrong and wrong.
In December 2007, the Hillary Clinton campaign asked for the resignations of volunteers who forwarded a chain e-mail falsely saying that Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim. Those firings are just the latest reverberations from a relentless e-mail that has piled up in in-boxes for at least a year.
The e-mail makes a number of specious claims to promote its Manchurian Candidate-style conspiracy theory. It says Obama was raised Muslim and that as a boy he attended a radical Wahabi school in Indonesia. The most recent twist on the e-mail falsely alleges that Obama took his oath of office for the U.S. Senate by swearing on a Koran, the Islamic holy book. The facts, though, are that Obama is a Christian and took the oath of office on a Bible.
Like many Internet smears, it's difficult to tell who’s behind the e-mail and when it got started. The earliest mention we found was on Snopes.com, a Web site devoted to investigating urban legends and other Internet oddities. Snopes checked out the e-mail it received in 2006 and found it false.
Also like many Internet smears, the e-mail starts with a bit of truth before wildly lurching into fantasy. It’s true that Obama’s father was from Africa, and Obama has said his father was born a Muslim. Obama's stepfather was from Indonesia, raised a Muslim. But there’s no evidence that either man was particularly religious as an adult — Obama's father is sometimes described as an atheist, while his stepfather drank alcohol, forbidden in Islam. Obama's American mother, Ann Dunham, rejected organized religion, according to several accounts. Obama has summed up his own faith history by saying he didn't grow up in any particular religious tradition. (Obama's mother, father and stepfather are all deceased.)
The chain e-mail spread from in-boxes to the mainstream press in January 2007, when the conservative magazine Insight published a story saying unnamed sources in the Clinton campaign had discovered that Obama attended a madrassa in Indonesia for four years. Clinton campaign officials denied the story. From Insight, the story was picked up by Fox News, the New York Post and the Glenn Beck program on CNN Headline News.
The Insight story, still available on the Web, never makes clear that the rumors aren't true. An editorial in Insight recently defended the article: “The focus in our story in January 2007 was Hillary’s campaign strategy, not Obama. We were right in our January report about Hillary’s activities, the facts continue to prove us right that Hillary will do all she can to sabotage Obama, and we will ultimately be fully vindicated. Once again, the liberal media will have egg on its face.�?
CNN, the Associated Press, the Los Angeles Times and the Chicago Tribune investigated the facts behind the e-mail's madrassa claim, sending reporters to Indonesia to interview former teachers and students. (“Madrassa�? is an Arabic word meaning "school,�? but Americans generally understand the word to mean a school where anti-Western Islamic ideology is taught.) These investigations found a public school where students wore Western clothing and prayer was a small part of the curriculum. The Chicago Tribune reported the school was “so progressive that teachers wore miniskirts and all students were encouraged to celebrate Christmas.�?
Another allegation that appears to have been tacked on to the madrassa e-mail at a later date is the notion that Obama took the oath of office using a Koran. That’s false. Obama became a Christian as an adult, after working as a community organizer with African-American churches in Chicago, a process he recounts in his memoir Dreams from My Father. He is currently a member of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. When he took the oath of office for the Senate in January 2005, he used his own personal Bible, according to the Obama campaign and press reports from the time.
It's worth noting that a December 2007 NBC/Wall Street Journal poll showed only a small minority — 17 percent — correctly identified Obama's religion as Protestant. Eight percent said Muslim, and 70 percent didn't know or refused to answer.
Because the chain e-mail is clearly intended to defame Obama (asking "Would you want this man leading our country?") and because it gets so many salient points wrong, we award it our Pants on Fire ruling.
- AMoore - 04-01-2008
What really gets me is this type of misinformation does have an effect of voters. The right wing loves it!
- emayer - 04-01-2008
nplenzick wrote:
Quote:emayer wrote:Quote:nplenzick wrote:Quote:emayer wrote:Quote:No intervention in stabilizing the mortgage crisis. Allow free market forces to play this out. A harsh and costly lesson indeed on the scale of the Great Depression, but one that will likely strengthen individual's and governmental fiscal responsibility moving forward.
Consider the creation of industrial zones with loosening of some environmental restrictions in these dedicated areas. Alternatively, taxation of industries within these areas can be reduced to assist in environmental compliance. Geographic consolidation will permit companies to collectively address environmental issues further reducing cost burden.
Aggressive pursuit of alternative energies including the reintroduction of nuclear power.
I agree with most of what you have suggested except these three statements.
I'm all for not bailing failing financial institutions but right now we have to do what ever it takes to keep this country out of a depression. Maybe your parents weren't old enough to live through it but mine were. It's something you and your children do not want to experience, believe me!
Why give any consideration to loosening environmental standards to industry? Unless you want this industrial zone in your backyard. This is just a step backwards as far as I'm concerned and just another excuse as to why we can't be competitive in the market place.
Nuclear power, well if and when they can ever make the disposal of the waste safe, then maybe. But I still remember what happened at Three Mile Island and how close we came to a complete melt down.
Good points!
My parents grew up during and in post-war Germany, our families essentially having to rebuild from rubble. I would argue that such hardships endear people with a greater appreciation of family, community, and civic responsibility which is sorely missing in this nation at present.
I agree that we shouldn't necessarily loosen environmental standards, just consolidate industries geographically to minimize environmental impact and contain costs. There are additional logistical benefits in doing this which would only benefit corporations. As an aside, there is a new coal powered energy plant not 3 miles from my house. You would never know its presence.
No one wants a nuclear plant in their backyard, but there are plenty of desolate regions throughout the country where these could be safely located. The technologies and saftery mecahnisms have evolved greatly since the 3-mile island accident of the 1970s. If you have the time, pull up a schematic of the Rhine, there are literally dozens of reactors along the borders!
As we have all said, meaningful change will require sacrifice and risk and you have correctly pointed out some of the concerns. Are we willing to accept these? Are there reasonable alternatives?
As for Obama and the Koran, I personally couldn't care less though I'm a bit perplexed. I know his father was Muslim, but isn't Obama Christian? If so, what was the intent of using the Koran if not to make some sort of statement? What is the message?
I'm no expert on post Word War II but didn't we help to some extent in the rebuilding process? Who's going to help us if we enter a depression? A depression that could very well be worse then what my parents lived through.
A coal fired plant my not be a problem at your house, but 100 miles down wind it could be causing a big problem. A quick ride through the higher elevations of the Appalachian mts and you'll see vast areas of acid rain damage. I don't know what our energy solutions are but it's something we should have our brightest scientists working on, not special interests!
Industries for the most part have been consolidated by local zoning laws. I for one wouldn't want the feds getting involved.
No doubt the US played an enormous role in stabilizing post-war Europe, but don't fool yourself. No GIs rolled up to rebuild my families' homes, communities, and businesses. It took the will and determination of a people striving to get back on their own two feet. This miraculous turnaround and the outcomes in the US following the Great Depression speaks volumes of what a populace can achieve under great duress. I didn't say it would be easy, but there is no reason to think that this couldn't happen again.
To get this country back on track what kind of concessions or sacrifices are you willing to make?
- nplenzick - 04-01-2008
ccm911 wrote:
Quote:nplenzick wrote:
Quote:Chris, the vast majority of people are try to live up to an image instead of living life.....................maybe its safer doing that but I'd be as bored as hell
Quote:Tell me about it. As I sit here in my cube in Corporate America at the age of 44, I continually ask myself, "What went Wrong?". It will be three years this June since I arrived here and have yet to hear an original thought. My bosses boss acts like he is scared of me. But then why shouldn't he be? He is about 35 and makes about a buck fifty a year. He played it straight, is married, has three kids and the obligatory SUV. And, here I am laughing at him continuously. He sees the disrespect, but can not do a thing about it since I actually get the job done. He belongs to one screwed up generation. They have no spunk. It is like someone has brainwashed them all. Like little rats! God forbid, someone should question the status quo!
But in the end, I would never trade places with him. I may be where I am at, but I am continually amused as I watch the passing parade run past my cubicle. And then again, nothing is forever. Good things are right around the corner.
Quote:
Quote:
So what are you waiting for Chris? 54?
I'll leave you with another quote from one of the greatest presidents that has ever lived.
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena , whose face is marred by dust and sweat an blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows , in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst , if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat"
Theodore Roosevelt, April 23, 1910
- emayer - 04-01-2008
AMoore wrote:
Quote:What really gets me is this type of misinformation does have an effect of voters. The right wing loves it!Absolutely true. The article suggests that the Hillary folks may have been spreading this around as well. The left likes to play this game too!
- nplenzick - 04-01-2008
emayer wrote:
Quote:nplenzick wrote:Quote:emayer wrote:Quote:nplenzick wrote:Quote:emayer wrote:Quote:No intervention in stabilizing the mortgage crisis. Allow free market forces to play this out. A harsh and costly lesson indeed on the scale of the Great Depression, but one that will likely strengthen individual's and governmental fiscal responsibility moving forward.
Consider the creation of industrial zones with loosening of some environmental restrictions in these dedicated areas. Alternatively, taxation of industries within these areas can be reduced to assist in environmental compliance. Geographic consolidation will permit companies to collectively address environmental issues further reducing cost burden.
Aggressive pursuit of alternative energies including the reintroduction of nuclear power.
I agree with most of what you have suggested except these three statements.
I'm all for not bailing failing financial institutions but right now we have to do what ever it takes to keep this country out of a depression. Maybe your parents weren't old enough to live through it but mine were. It's something you and your children do not want to experience, believe me!
Why give any consideration to loosening environmental standards to industry? Unless you want this industrial zone in your backyard. This is just a step backwards as far as I'm concerned and just another excuse as to why we can't be competitive in the market place.
Nuclear power, well if and when they can ever make the disposal of the waste safe, then maybe. But I still remember what happened at Three Mile Island and how close we came to a complete melt down.
Good points!
My parents grew up during and in post-war Germany, our families essentially having to rebuild from rubble. I would argue that such hardships endear people with a greater appreciation of family, community, and civic responsibility which is sorely missing in this nation at present.
I agree that we shouldn't necessarily loosen environmental standards, just consolidate industries geographically to minimize environmental impact and contain costs. There are additional logistical benefits in doing this which would only benefit corporations. As an aside, there is a new coal powered energy plant not 3 miles from my house. You would never know its presence.
No one wants a nuclear plant in their backyard, but there are plenty of desolate regions throughout the country where these could be safely located. The technologies and saftery mecahnisms have evolved greatly since the 3-mile island accident of the 1970s. If you have the time, pull up a schematic of the Rhine, there are literally dozens of reactors along the borders!
As we have all said, meaningful change will require sacrifice and risk and you have correctly pointed out some of the concerns. Are we willing to accept these? Are there reasonable alternatives?
As for Obama and the Koran, I personally couldn't care less though I'm a bit perplexed. I know his father was Muslim, but isn't Obama Christian? If so, what was the intent of using the Koran if not to make some sort of statement? What is the message?
I'm no expert on post Word War II but didn't we help to some extent in the rebuilding process? Who's going to help us if we enter a depression? A depression that could very well be worse then what my parents lived through.
A coal fired plant my not be a problem at your house, but 100 miles down wind it could be causing a big problem. A quick ride through the higher elevations of the Appalachian mts and you'll see vast areas of acid rain damage. I don't know what our energy solutions are but it's something we should have our brightest scientists working on, not special interests!
Industries for the most part have been consolidated by local zoning laws. I for one wouldn't want the feds getting involved.
No doubt the US played an enormous role in stabilizing post-war Europe, but don't fool yourself. No GIs rolled up to rebuild my families' homes, communities, and businesses. It took the will and determination of a people striving to get back on their own two feet. This miraculous turnaround and the outcomes in the US following the Great Depression speaks volumes of what a populace can achieve under great duress. I didn't say it would be easy, but there is no reason to think that this couldn't happen again.
To get this country back on track what kind of concessions or sacrifices are you willing to make?
It also took a great leader and a World War to get us out of it! 14 long years of hardship. Do you want to give up your job in a office somewhere to join the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC camps) to build roads and parks somewhere. Waiting in line for food? Starting a draft again, sending your children to war? Do you want that for your family? Your kids? We don't need a depression to get us back on track again no more then we need another World War. Your buying in to the extreme mentality, it's ether this or that........no room for compromise. Barack mentions this in his book, you might want to pick up a copy.
As for me I've always lived my life making concessions and sacrifices for this country. We leave a very small footprint here in Warrington, surrounded by Mcmansions that people can barely afford let alone furnish. You won't here me bitching and complaining about the school taxes here even though I never had any children. I never have voted with my wallet ether. You see I never bought the myth, you know it's like a guy driving a GT3 at a track event only to look in his mirror and see that stock 86 911 dogging you through every corner. So what does he do? Goes out and buys a GT2.