+- Riesentöter Forums (https://rtr-pca.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Club Activities (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Forum: Membership Meetings (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=54)
+--- Thread: Ratification of Expense Reimbursement and Discount Policy (/showthread.php?tid=1936)
- Phokaioglaukos - 10-11-2009
emayer wrote:
Quote:with the potential conflicts correctly pointed out by Betsi, has anyone considered having the general membership vote to ratify any further changes to the bylaws? It may be a bit more cumbersome, but would be the most transparent mechanism.The membership can certainly propose and adopt changes to the Bylaws, and I have previously committed to working out a mechanism for that which has a chance of actually working, unlike the one that PCA national has. I do not think it a good thing for ONLY the members to have the power to amend the Bylaws, and I submit that the three changes the Board made this year are excellent evidence of that. Without those changes our inadvertant issue with Officer discounts and when the new Board will take office, both errors in the Bylaws adopted last November, would have to wait for a member meeting to correct following cumbersome notice to the members, more cumbersome than in recent years because Der Gasser publishes less frequently.
Transparency to me is notice to the members of what the Board does, not abdicating responsibility to the membership.
To that end, I would like Speed Council to be regularized--that is appointed as a body by the Board, responsible to the Board (and thereby to the members) and with their actions publicized to the Board and members.
- emayer - 10-11-2009
Chris,
I think the point you raise about the speed council here and on the other thread is an excellent idea. While these are appointed positions, most of us were probably under the impression that the speed council was under the direct management of the exec board. There is no conceivable reason not to have oversight and participation of the exec members if they so choose.
I wonder what the other candidates or speed council members think of this?
There isn't a right answer, but the explanation you gave regarding the bylaws basically boils down to a difference of opinion regarding membership oversight versus efficiency. I'm no lawyer, but most of us belonging to other organizations are used to a format whereby proposed changes to the bylaws are ratified by the general membership. This is typically an infrequent event. Simply stated, bylaw changes are proposed and approved by the exec committee prior to submission for a general membership vote. Between meetings, Der Gasser, and the online forum, a mechanism could be created to permit quicker distribution of any proposed changes and voting. If this isn't efficient enough, another idea would be to permit temporary (emergency) bylaw changes as approved by the exec until ratification at the next scheduled meeting.
The current leadership should be applauded for their efforts in transparency despite the fact that it may raise even more questions from the membership. Most would agree that a reasonable discount is warranted for those that actively participate in managing the club, there should be no reason not to share this openly and permit modifications as supply/demand and economic conditions dictate.
- bobt993 - 10-11-2009
Who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I heard about the discount I had no problem and see no conflict of interest for such a small financial gain, really. The club volunteers put in enough time to make the events run smoothly and as pointed out, several double up and also instruct at the events so there is nothing gained from the extra effort. I have witnessed several club/BOARD MEMBERS missing track time to deal with trivial and importants matters of the course of an event weekend. I have never heard one of these individuals complain about missing track time. Our club DE events are still reasonably priced in comparison to other regions/organizations. Find something more important to complain about or go join another club that runs RC cars around a dirt track all day. YEeeeshh!
- emayer - 10-11-2009
Who's complaining?
I don't know if your remark is intended for others, but what prompted my interest in these topics to begin with was to see if we could add to or improve to the current discounts in order to make it more palatable for DE instructors! Hard to do that if no formal compensation policy exists or it's kept secret. That aspect of the discussion has since been well addressed by the exec.
In case you haven't noticed this has become an increasing problem. We have an excellent DE program, but the competition for good instructors has heightened as more clubs and venues have become available. This problem is now exacerbated by the current economic climate.
You're right about working with other clubs. With my hard earned dollar, I have (and will) run where the track instruction and time is best spent. We all have other things we could be doing, this is an awesome club and worth spending a few minutes discussing ways of improving it to our benefit IMHO.
- bobt993 - 10-11-2009
Eric,
I am simply tired of hearing about one subject matter pertaining to the club exec board when so many other issues are more important. Most of the exec board instruct in addition to their other responsibilities. I have instructed for multiple clubs with very different programs that range from monetary compensation to free meals and driving etc, but that has not stopped me from supporting RTR. I agree to transparency. Speaking from an instructor's perspective, I think there are other areas that can be addressed to attract more instructor support and that is what I am interested in hearing from the exec candidates running for office.
As far as complaining I see a lot of individuals that could spend their time volunteering to help out the club rather than barking from the corner office.
- emayer - 10-11-2009
Bob,
I share your thoughts about the exec board discounts, they are also well deserved as I've stated earlier. Publishing the policy was a nice idea also because it made clear what DE instructors are granted from the club.
As a student, I've seen firsthand some of the frustration expressed by several RTR instructors regarding workload and treatment which I didn't encounter elsewhere. Others have shared their opinions on the forum. We are fortunate that many are like you, who are willing to help regardless of the situation, but we cannot assume this will always be the case. In my view, this topic is far more important to the well-being of RTR than all the political theatrics of late.
There were excellent proposals made to assist in rectifying this problem on other threads and I'm trying to help by keeping this discussion active and constructive with the hope of garnering some meaningful changes (I'll be quiet after that I promise!
). I trust the matter will be taken up by the powers-that-be after the election. If you haven't shared them already, it would be great to hear your thoughts and ideas on the subject. What are your feelings regarding the autonomy of the speed council as pointed out by Chris? Should these be elected positions also, or is there a role for direct oversight by the exec? Would that actually help the program or is it unimportant? Based on your experience, how can the DE program be improved for instructors?Candidates: What are your ideas?
- bobt993 - 10-11-2009
Eric,
Very reasonable approach. In the past year (about that), I have worked with BMW, NASA, Audi, Promotion, two other Porshe regions. There are certainly some aspects of the events they offer that should be considered for instructors/students. Overall I think we have a very good program as you indicated. One of the best ways for the council to understand some of the intangibles is to attend other events filter the info and poll the attendee.
- catchacab - 10-11-2009
Phokaioglaukos wrote:
Quote:To that end, I would like Speed Council to be regularized--that is appointed as a body by the Board, responsible to the Board (and thereby to the members) and with their actions publicized to the Board and members.Taken from January 2009 E-Board minutes
- Phokaioglaukos - 10-11-2009
Thanks for posting that. I wish I had known in Jan that some of these folks would meet among themselves to run the DE program and not let even the President attend their meetings, let alone publish minutes or agendas to the Board or members.
- JoeP - 10-12-2009
Phokaioglaukos wrote:
Quote:...I wish I had known in Jan that some of these folks would meet among themselves to run the DE program and not let even the President attend their meetings, let alone publish minutes or agendas to the Board or members.That raises a question for Graham. -- When you were trying to attend the Speed Council, which event(s) were you trying to add or delete from the schedule?
I'm not a big fan of certain tracks, but I'm not sure that I would want them changed - even Jefferson. Experience on a wider mix is better than going to the same circuits all of the time. Since Mike is already on the Speed Council, I assume that his input is already visible in the tracks we've seen over the past few years. I would like to hear what changes Graham recommends.