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+--- Thread: Is Schroth Quick Fit Pro Harness Approved for PCA DE? (/showthread.php?tid=652)
- John_Janick - 08-21-2008
bobt993 wrote:
Quote:John,Your tech form says "open cars" require arm restraints. I guess RTR not mean verts when they say open car. I know more than one guy who bought restraints thinking that applied to his car...I guess I should let him in on it...
I think you need to read more on the rules for open top cars at DE's. Arm restraints are listed as a requirement for open canopy. Larry has been racing longer than most club members have their drivers license so I would use him as a guide for safety considerations. If you look hard and long enough you can find exceptions to all rules/precautions, but the law of averages should be followed.
What does Larry's distinguished racing career have to do with the fact that I know a gentleman who broke his back wearing a harness without a roll bar, or that a LARGE portion of instructors/racers/clubs/etc. etc. have rules against the harness + no rollbar?
Do you want a list of professional drivers who have told me personally that they whole-heartedly are against a harness without a bar?
I'm not saying that Larry is wrong, if that's what the numbers mean. But I was an engineer in the automotove safety equipment field, and there are certainly a number of highly respected people in the industry who would spend all day arguing the other side of the coin. In fact, a majoirty of those in the industry recommend against it.
And again, Larry may very well be correct, as he appears to have examined the numbers, but I fail to see (and this should probably concern you too) how the word of one verteran racer somehow trumps what legions of other people say, just because. And don't get me wrong, I am open to seeing the evidnece. However, word of mouth is not evidence.
Anyway, I don't want anything to be taking in the wrong tone. You guys are my favorite group to run with and I'll see you guys at NPMP...
- bobt993 - 08-21-2008
John,
I think "tone" is an appropriate description ( let's try and keep this on an educational level) and don't think Larry was trying to be condenscending. My reference to Larry has nothing to do with his "distinguished" racing career, but rather with his experiencing first hand cars rolled, drivers to the hospital, alot of the carnage that follows club racing for 20 years. I see no relevance to "pro" vs "amateur" racing for credentials on safety since the disparity in gear/prep is more prevalent on the amateur level. I happen to agree with Larry (and do not always) regarding harnesses.
After personally being in a couple accidents while racing (one solely on me and one avoiding a spinning car in the rain) , the lack of impacting hard objects in the car resulted in no physical injuries. I guess I should ask if you yourself have had an accident on the track while wearing harnesses VS 3-points? I have been a passenger in the latter and the amount of movement a 3-point system allows is/was concerning.
I am sorry you have a friend who suffered such a serious accident. It would make me wonder also about the odds from a roll over, but just looking at Joey Hand's shunt at Mid O a year ago and it re-affirms my belief in being belted in as best as possible. (part of Hand's cage failed near the end of the tumble he had). I believe you are asserting that a roll bar should be part of the harness system also and I agree with you regarding that one. I am at the point now where I am not sure I want to get into a fast car without a cage on the track.
I see your argument and respect your background, just my own experience so far has me on the other side of the fence.
- Darren - 08-21-2008
My cat's breath smells like cat food.
- John_Janick - 08-21-2008
Darren wrote:
Quote:My cat's breath smells like cat food.And that sir is the very reason I don't want a cat, or cat food for that matter.
Darren... are you the gentleman who runs the black 996 and the H4 car?
I think you and your son set of shop next to us at the Summit Main weekend last fall...(two red S2000's and a WRX). Anyway, thanks for putting this thread back into perspective.
Perhaps now is a good time to tell everyone that I have had a Rally 4 in my car for years...I'm just often nervous to use it on track, as opposed to autox. :? I normally just rely on the old seat back, lock belt, seat forward method.
But anyway, I'll be in a german car for your next event, so everyone stop by and say hello.
- Graham - 08-21-2008
John_Janick wrote:
Quote:But anyway, I'll be in a german car for your next event, so everyone stop by and say hello.
John,
German car?
Don't forget the blend line... See you soon. - Graham :dude:
- Darren - 08-21-2008
John_Janick wrote:
Quote:Darren... are you the gentleman who runs the black 996 and the H4 car?Yes! I remember you guys. I'm bummed I'm missing the 4-day back to back events at Summit this year -- RTR was there Thurs and Fri, and NASA Mid-Atlantic this weekend. I bought a boat though, so I'm going sailing instead
I think you and your son set of shop next to us at the Summit Main weekend last fall...(two red S2000's and a WRX).
- John_Janick - 08-22-2008
Graham wrote:
Quote:John_Janick wrote:Graham,Quote:But anyway, I'll be in a german car for your next event, so everyone stop by and say hello.
John,
German car?
Don't forget the blend line... See you soon. - Graham :dude:
Tom's (your favorite S2000) been blending better these days. I gave the WRX to my brother and am now in an M3 (black). I think we spoke at Schattenbaum's event at lightning.
See you guys out there...
- Graham - 08-22-2008
John_Janick wrote:
Quote:Graham wrote:See ya soon!Quote:John_Janick wrote:Graham,Quote:But anyway, I'll be in a german car for your next event, so everyone stop by and say hello.
John,
German car?
Don't forget the blend line... See you soon. - Graham :dude:
Tom's (your favorite S2000) been blending better these days. I gave the WRX to my brother and am now in an M3 (black). I think we spoke at Schattenbaum's event at lightning.
See you guys out there...