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+--- Thread: 'ring School for 2008? (/showthread.php?tid=843)
- catchacab - 12-29-2007
What hopefully separates us from the 17 year old "Fast and Furious" crowd, is a level of maturity, responsibility, restraint, and respect. Driving on a street well in excess of the speed limit and then posting it on this or any other P-car related forum, hurts the reputation of all P-car owners, PCA members and RTR members. A few months back a kid who was video taped driving well in excess of the speed limit posted on Rennlist. Do you remember the feedback?
I wouldn't be surprised if all active drivers were polled, including granny driving her Oldsmobuick, indicated that at least on one occasion they excessively exceeded the posted speed limit.
The saying, "Do as I say, not as I do." also has a relative saying "Don't say what you do."
Because of the interest in our marque, by those who are not owners, we have a responsibility to be more than courteous on the road. You do not want to hear, "What is the difference between a porcupine and a Porsche?" This is even more so if you have a PCA tag on your car. Additionally, as your position as administrator of this forum you have a higher responsibility regarding the content of what you post on this forum. Look to the administrators and moderators of Rennlist as an example of what and how to post.
When I was 17, I bought a Camaro (I am ready for everyones comments). On Friday and Saturday nights the main road in my town (Hempstead Tpke., 3 lanes in each direction plus turning lanes) was the hot spot for cruising and hot rodders. There was a heavy police presence. At each red light there was always a race to 40 MPH. Go above, and you had a guaranteed ticket. Funny thing, is that you never saw a Porsche on that road at night. Yes, then and now, I enjoy acceleration. At that age, I was not aware that there were opportunities to take our cars to the track. In my senior year of high school, my English teacher was and still is Rally Master for Metro NY PCA, he told me about Rallies and invited me to one. I thought that due to my car, I would be at a distinct disadvantage to the Porsches. I never took him up on his invitation, and regret it to this day.
We have bought our Porsche for many different reasons. For some, including me, it was achieving a childhood dream, others may have admired the style of the cars, some may have respected and appreciated the capabilities of the cars, while others may have bought them as a status symbol. None of these reason for buying these cars is wrong.
P-car owner are a diverse bunch. We have different experiences and interests both inside and outside of the club and our cars. I appreciate that you have volunteered your time to our club.
If straight line acceleration is truly your interest, there are many better cars than a 996 out there.
A friend of mine, who introduced me to PCA and DE, attended his first DE in the early 80's. His first statement to his instructor was will you move me up now, I know how to drive. After two sessions, he packed up and went home for two reasons; one, he realized he didn't know how to drive. second, he wasn't sure DE was the thing for him. He tried it again the following year, became hooked and is currently an instructor.
A neighbor and friend of mine who is in the car business and his family has been in the car business for decades was known for his aggressive driving on the street. He started in DE and progressed to racing both Porsches and Mazdas. Once he started driving on the track, he drove less aggressively on the street. This he did subconsciously. When alerted to this by his friends, he thought about it and came to the conclusions that driving aggressively and fast on the street is not safe and and not as fun as driving on the track.
Why do I enjoy DE? For me it is the challenge. I have done well in other areas of my life. Due to some knee injuries in college, regular sports that I do enjoy playing are not an option for me. Video games, although fun, would probably help introduce me to a divorce attorney. In DE, there are many better drivers than me. It has taken me time, patience, persistence and practice to improve my driving skills, and I still have a long way to go. There are many drivers in our club that have a lot more natural and learned driving skill than me. I respect them and aspire to drive as well as them, it just may take me a few decades.
Wayne, take off your skirt
, and join us for Snydley or Metro NY has a novice day at Pocono. You may even enjoy and appreciate your 996 more .- Sechsgang - 12-29-2007
I like passing people without them giving me the middle finger...well, I guess I get that in DE too...haha
Wellard, comon man! You gotta go to atleast one of these things...its a blast and the people are all pretty damn amazing. Everyone is helpful and you can learn so much from the DE guys...you should come to Pocono atleast!
- Wellardmac - 12-29-2007
Oh, I'm sure it would be a lot of fun, but as I said, it's just not something that attracts me. I'm not wired for speed, it just doesn't do anything for me. If it did I'd probably be into powerboating instead.
I lack the time to be able to commit to being able to prepare and drive a DE. On top of that I'm simply not prepared to put my car on a track. I'm of the philosophy that you shouldn't put a car on the track unless you're willing to write it off and walk away. I am not willing to do that with my car, it really is that simple. I have a car that I love and I wouldn't be able to bear a situation where I trash it.
I do things I enjoy and am attracted to doing, DE just isn't one of them. Sorry.
- catchacab - 12-29-2007
Wayne, I believe insurance for DE will soon be available.
The on track risk is much lower for a car to car contact than on the street.
- catchacab - 12-29-2007
Wayne, the beauty of DE is that you can drive at a pace that you are comfortable with (provided that your instructor feels that you are safe at that speed).
- bobt993 - 12-29-2007
Eric,
Do not kid yourself on safety at the track. Risk is higher, both as an event based on a day of driving or just physical time on the track versus the street for an accident. You can even extend this to a per mile risk of track time versus street driving. ( last number I saw for in a PCA article for reported incidents was .75%, so almost 1 car in a 100). DE, racing etc, is a risk environment.
There is a benefit to DE or racing schools in that Edmunds sites this activity on their list of top ten ways to avoid/minimize an accident on the street. It is generally accepted that learning to drive a car at speed (yours or schools) will increase your ability in accident avoidance. I agree with this.
Not everyone buys a Porsche or performance car to test the limits of the car and their ability. The same holds true for Concours as not everyone with such a fine automobile will invest the proper time to keep the car looking better than new.
- Wellardmac - 12-29-2007
Thanks Bob.
I fall into the category where I know that the car can outperform my skills and I'm perfectly okay with that. That knowledge does nothing to damage my manhood or security in knowing who I am.
I have a fine car that does everything that I need and more. I have a garage queen and I like it that way.
I have a philosophy of each to their own. I do not feel the need to push my beliefs, needs, and desires on others. I've never understood those that need to push their pardigm on others to feel better about themselves.
You guys can go and enjoy your track time and I salute you for that. I recognize the value in a good DE program and am glad to watch others enjoy themselves and learn from them.
On that note I think I've added as much as I can to this OT detour. It would be nice to see Chris and a few other bring back from nice videos from the ring.
bobt993 wrote:
Quote:Eric,
Do not kid yourself on safety at the track. Risk is higher, both as an event based on a day of driving or just physical time on the track versus the street for an accident. You can even extend this to a per mile risk of track time versus street driving. ( last number I saw for in a PCA article for reported incidents was .75%, so almost 1 car in a 100). DE, racing etc, is a risk environment.
There is a benefit to DE or racing schools in that Edmunds sites this activity on their list of top ten ways to avoid/minimize an accident on the street. It is generally accepted that learning to drive a car at speed (yours or schools) will increase your ability in accident avoidance. I agree with this.
Not everyone buys a Porsche or performance car to test the limits of the car and their ability. The same holds true for Concours as not everyone with such a fine automobile will invest the proper time to keep the car looking better than new.
- bobt993 - 12-29-2007
I have some track videos of the ring during practice laps. Video taken during open lapping days (public) are prohibited and they will confiscate your equipment if caught (they are German, they have competent gate merchants). I think Eric is just being very enthusiastic about the track and thinks/wants everyone to enjoy it as much as he does. Fortunately, for those of us that enjoy DE/Racing not everyone joins us.
- catchacab - 12-29-2007
Bob, Is the .75% number based on a day an event or a season?
FYI on the street, there is generally one accident reported per vehicle per 100,000 miles driven per vehicle. Extrapolated, saying most accidents involve two cars, there is an accident (some single cars, some two cars, some multiple cars) there is an accident for every 50,000 miles driven in the US.
Assuming the .75% is based on per event: with an average of 25 miles driven per run session (i feel this number is conservative), four run sessions per day, and 120 cars at an event, and an average of a two day event. 24,000 miles are logged at an event.
If there are .75% incidents per 24,000 track miles that makes an incident expected for every 32,000 miles driven. Yes, an increase compared to road driven miles, but how many road incidents are not reported, and also how few of the on track incidents involve more than one vehicle. (You can't blame the other guy)
Statistically, the risk incurred on track, is 1.56X per mile compared to driving on the street. My average round trip trip length to a track (not including NJMSP) is 450 miles. Statistically, I am more likely to have an incident while in transit than on track.
- Wellardmac - 12-29-2007
Interesting. I did not know that. I've seen so many videos taken there I would never have guessed.
I'd love to see any of your videos if you have them posted.
bobt993 wrote:
Quote:I have some track videos of the ring during practice laps. Video taken during open lapping days (public) are prohibited and they will confiscate your equipment if caught (they are German, they have competent gate merchants). I think Eric is just being very enthusiastic about the track and thinks/wants everyone to enjoy it as much as he does. Fortunately, for those of us that enjoy DE/Racing not everyone joins us.