+- Riesentöter Forums (https://rtr-pca.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Club Activities (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Forum: Driver's Education (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=29)
+--- Thread: Thunderbolt Raceway Line and Video (/showthread.php?tid=1273)
- steveh - 09-05-2008
You're right -- this whole discussion started around where you tracked out from 4 to enter 5. The "conventional wisdom" says you should throw away a little speed in 4 to get a good set up and as much exit speed as possible in 5, and certainly in a DE context this would make the most sense (it's the way I drove it, and I expect most other DE'rs do too).
It's just interesting to me that the racers take a different approach. There's a long thread on Trackpedia about whether there is just one "line" for every track, and about all of the exceptions that prove the rule, and this is one more example. Maybe it's just the fact that they're in race cars, or that they're conscious of defending the corners, clearly not an issue in DE, but the Rolex and KONI Challenge guys all seem to have taken a less than optimal line through that combo.
- Darren - 09-05-2008
Yeah that is a good point, and a good discussion. This track in particular I think there are a couple of different lines in places, and in a way that's why it's fun to drive on a new track because nobody knows.
Many people/clubs say there is 1 line, and as far as instruction goes we teach to an "ideal" line which isn't always the fastest line. DE is about safety, of course, so often the "ideal" line adjusts for that.
White learning its important to be able to drive the line an instructor says because if you're good enough, you should be able to drive any line, though obviously with speed adjustments.
Racing, you're never on-line anyway
- Brian Minkin - 09-05-2008
I will kick in my two cents about turn 4 and 5 at Thunderbolt. My first day on the track I used the line I had read about which was to pinch turn 4 on the inside to set up for 5. I was turning 1:38 on day one. Day 2 I started to experiment and started tracking out 3/4 of the way in 4 and entering 5 from the middle of the track. 4 is certainly faster tracking out. There is plenty of curbing at track out for 5 so you can hammer the throttle once you get to apex. This and an earlier apex in 1 and using the curbing more at track out for 1 got me 1:35's and 1:36's consistently. ( I am sure some adjustment in the octopus as well was was part of the reduction in lap time) Looking forward to getting back out on Thunderbolt but I am sure getting faster lap times will be very challenging.
Now I just need to stock up on Hoosiers. Thunderbolt was really rough on outer left tires.
- redcar1 - 09-05-2008
If you are racing, in anything but the smallest hp class, there is really no doubt that carrying the maximum speed through 4 is the fastest way around. The challenge is to sacrifice as little as possible in 5.
I ran several sub 1:25s. Jeff Segal is a much better driver than I am, and so is Eric Van de Poele, here is Eric absolutely flying around the track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v1UvjSXaKg
He does use more track left at 2:10, when he's forced to apex early by traffic, than at 3:23 and some of the subsequent laps.
Mark
- Darren - 09-05-2008
Wow...awesome video! 1:18 it looked like? That seemed to be a fast time from the bits of the race I saw on TV. I want to drive like that!
Thanks for the feedback Mark! I'm thinking about doing a time trial event there next weekend just for fun.
- ninjabones - 09-09-2008
Darren taught me his line at a NASA event last month. I was back at Thunderbolt this weekend with NNJR. Friday and Sunday were beautiful, but the storm pretty much ruined saturday. Very frustrating event... tons of traffic... what seamed like deliberate withholding of point-bys... totally useless work assignment (4 hours at the front gait for absolutely no reason).
Anyway, got one decent session on Sunday afternoon after many had left. Here's about the cleanest 4 laps I could find.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw4dQOoeAbU
Not sure why, but I was about 2 seconds slower in my best lap times this weekend compared to last month with NASA. My arsometer was telling me that I was driving better and faster, but the lap timer told a different story. Could be that the MPSCs were new at that event and now have over 30 heat cycles, but I'm not sure that could explain away two seconds. Comments appreciated on where I can pick those two seconds back up (I know, less brake... more throttle)
- Brian Minkin - 09-09-2008
Funny how the Asometer and the lap timer never seem to agree.
- Darren - 09-09-2008
ninjabones wrote:
Quote:Not sure why, but I was about 2 seconds slower in my best lap times this weekend compared to last month with NASA. My arsometer was telling me that I was driving better and faster, but the lap timer told a different story. Could be that the MPSCs were new at that event and now have over 30 heat cycles, but I'm not sure that could explain away two seconds. Comments appreciated on where I can pick those two seconds back up (I know, less brake... more throttle)You're just driving slower, not carrying as much speed into the turns as you were before. I think you're also a little later getting on the throttle than normal. It looks like there was a lot of slow traffic also...
- bobt993 - 09-09-2008
Sorry, not knowing the track.... Agree with Darren though. Got distracted by this other vid posted next to yours on uboob.
http://fastdrivinggirls.altervista.org/
- ninjabones - 09-09-2008
I figured I was just beeing a wuss... less brake, more throttle... got it.
Also thought I'd post some video to see what you guys think. The green 914 in this video reported me to the track chair after this session for being too "aggressive". Did I do something wrong here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bViMqTxphcs
I was closing on him very fast and was anticipating the point-by between 5-6. When I didn't get it, I backed off and made another run at him between 6-7 (also a passing zone). Didn't get the point by, so I backed off completely throughout the entire carousel. Left a ton of distance and made a run at him after 14 on the front straight.
I guess I could have been more patient, but there is very little time to make a pass on these two straights (5-6, 6-7) before the carousel (which is very painful when you get stuck behind slow cars). I have to admit that I became very frustrated this weekend as filling the mirrors of the car in front did not always get me the point by (especially this 914, who frustrated me all weekend). What should I have done differently here?
I had to have a discussion with the track chair. I brought the video, but he didn't want to see it. He just told me to take it easy and play nice, and to respect the right of the car in front to control the pass. He was right... but perhaps some remediation and encouragement of bettter situational awareness was also in order for the green 914.