+- Riesentöter Forums (https://rtr-pca.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Club Activities (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Forum: Driver's Education (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=29)
+--- Thread: Car Control-How is it taught? (/showthread.php?tid=1562)
- fasthonda - 01-25-2009
great attitude, mike! i wish all students had that outlook!!!
todd
- michael lang - 01-25-2009
Thanks Todd, but my point really is more the whole reason we go to and participate in DE is to LEARN car control because that can't be learned on the street safely. Just like everything else, we learn from the experienced and from them we get experience. Kind of a right of passage so to speak. Anyway I'm really glad I put my reservations aside and went to my first event 4 years ago. This year is really looking promising for my driving and I'm extremely excited about the upcoming season.
- Racingswh - 01-26-2009
michael lang wrote:
Quote:Thanks Todd, but my point really is more the whole reason we go to and participate in DE is to LEARN car control because that can't be learned on the street safely. Just like everything else, we learn from the experienced and from them we get experience. Kind of a right of passage so to speak. Anyway I'm really glad I put my reservations aside and went to my first event 4 years ago. This year is really looking promising for my driving and I'm extremely excited about the upcoming season.
You're the exception to the rule Michael. You want to really excel at high performance driving and are willing to read, listen, and experience all that is necessary to become better than you are.
DE does not necessarily teach car control. You may learn it from participating in a number of DE events but what you're actually learning is the proper line in addition to safety, awareness, patience etc. The correct line supports the most speed. Because of that you actually reduce the amount of car control skill you need even when you're going faster than you ever have. I have ridden in very few cars that are being driven at the limit. You may very well be the fastest guy out there but when you're circulating 7-10 seconds slower than other drivers do in a comparable car then you're not really at the limit although you're going really fast. There are certainly exceptions like with Todd in formerly his Evo in the rain at 115 mph at trackout onto the straight. Car sliding up toward the wall the whole way. That was FUN!!!!
I am talking a guy like my Dad. Been doing DE's since 03'. He get's around ok but if he makes a mistake, then what? Well, unfortunately we found out. Gotta keep those drivers in check so that if a mistake is made there is enough margin for error that bad stuff can hopefully be avoided.
Have a great season this year Michael and learn all you can. What we do is soo much fun!! I am looking forward to a great driving season and it's just around the corner.
- catchacab - 01-27-2009
Darren wrote:
Quote:Brian Minkin wrote:Quote:I thought about your question for a bit and for me it was AutocrossActually, for me it was when Brian oiled down the whole lap on-line at Thunderbolt, almost took me out
Brian was just doing his James Bond impression!
See video link belowhttp://motortorque.askaprice.com/videos/watch.asp?video=196
- opus - 01-27-2009
Does driving on a snow covered track help develop car control skills? I am thinking it may as the car is slower yet slides around. Too bad we don't have winter/snow track days here in Philly.
Interesting video of the snow driving...in German in a GT-R.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfXkJMDWDMU&eurl=http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=140710
- catchacab - 01-27-2009
I have been watching this thread for a while and there have been many excellent posts.
I feel the best way to learn car control is to lose control and learn how to regain control in a controlled and safe environment. I don't feel that this can be done safely at most tracks and can not be done during a normal DE run group. The place for this is at a very large skid pad. The skid pad should be large enough that we can be able to get up to a high rate of speed, induce oversteer, understeer, four wheel drifts and have plenty of room to regain control. For those who have been to Bondauant, their skid pad/autocross/lane change area is what I have in mind. Here we can learn what our cars feel like at their true limit, without the fear of hitting something. Summit Point recently completed a new skid pad that is about 500ftx2500ft.
Personally, I feel most of us just drive fast at DEs. We learn the basics about how to control our cars, but as was said in a previous post we don't really learn car control at the limit. There are many in our group that are excellent drivers and have far superior skills and instinct than I will ever have (I will not mention names), who have mastered car control at the limit and can learn at practice it at a DE, but they are the exception and not the rule.
I am not and will never be the fastest driver. For me DE is learning how to drive better and faster. I like to take baby steps in advancing in speed and skill. The most important thing for me is to come home unhurt, and without a large repair bill. So, I will move up the run groups slower, and slower cars will pass me.
It would benefit our club and the region if a facility similar to Boundarant's skid pad areas was developed. Not only could our club use it, but we could create defensive driving courses, courses in car control, host AX, etc. We could provide services to local law enforcement, high school based DE programs, MADD, driving schools, and more.
Speaking of Boundarant, with my associate being pregnant this past year, and having to work many more hours, I wasn't able to attend as many DEs as I would have liked to. I have been suffering from serious DE withdrawal. So I am planning on going to Boundarant in either March or April. Anyone want to come?
- AMoore - 01-28-2009
I think most of us think of it as a garbage motorsport but drifting is all about car control.
- Darren - 01-28-2009
AMoore wrote:
Quote:I think most of us think of it as a garbage motorsport but drifting is all about car control.No such thing
Anything people do with their cars is cool with me!Ice Racing! Now that's something I'd love to do! Up in the Michigan area where there are tons of lakes I know people do this. They have different classes for snow tires vs studded snows, and I think some guys even put screws in the tires!
The less traction you have the more you have to be able to balance the car and feel it instantly.
Drifting does have some stigma. Look at it this way though -- a few years back there was a huge FWD drag racing scene. That basically turned into a drifting scene, and more recently a time trial scene. That's what you'll hear about this year is Time Trials, and the coolest thing about that from my point of view is prize money
Many of these kids that have been brought into more organized track events were previously street racing. And not just drag racing -- I know this one crazy guy that would race 50-100 miles on public highways against other guys Cannonball Run style! Nuts!
- cjbcpa - 01-28-2009
Here's a timely article.
CB
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aUf0jdgYEP2g&refer=home
- Bill Lehman - 01-28-2009
I lived in Michigan for about 5 years. During the off season various sports car clubs would set up an autocross on frozen lakes. Some of these approached a mile in length. Classes were simple, engine over drive wheels or not. Studs or not. Great fun setting my Volvo 122 tow car up for a turn 100 yards before the turn. Back to the OP topic, previous posters have mentioned autocross training as a good opportunity to learn car control. I agree 100%. Back in the day, there was an auto sprint series in this area whcih ran similar to an autocross but was held on actual small scale tracks. I did about a season of this before going to drivers school and it was a great help.