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+--- Thread: Lessons from other regions/sponsors? (/showthread.php?tid=145)
- Brian Minkin - 11-09-2006
Cones friday and sat morning for any green students who did not make friday. Put them away Sat at lunch.
- smankow - 11-09-2006
here is the one issue that I thought would have been raised much earlier in this thread. It may be the primary component to take RTR's DE program to the next level. It's an area that I personally have not used but I know that others have and really like it. What is it?
ONLINE REGISTRATION
and region, such as Potomac, use this for all of their events, including DE, AX, etc.
I know that RTR has been looking into it. Hopefully, we can incorporate it into our 2007 events. Our program is very well run despite its manually intensive setup. Maybe we can accomplish this and upgrade our "wonderful" website at the same time.
Steve
- ccm911 - 11-09-2006
After reading this long thread, I just feel compelled to jump into the fray. I bust a lot on DE, but there is one thing for sure. During my five year stint, I loved it. I also loved the way the events were handled. And when I became registrar, I heard first hand from our out of region guests what a great job that we all did.
So. RTR Drivers Ed. DO NOT CHANGE A THING! You all do a great job, and there is really nothing that needs to be changed.
And if you want to get promoted up through the ranks, just keep driving. And when you hit the white group, use instructors more than you did in Green and Blue.
And a bunch of you forum folks need to lighten up. This is supposed to be fun. Remember?
- Hammerin Hank - 11-09-2006
bobt993 wrote:
Quote:Hank,
I was under the impression you have run with RTR and had a bad experience. It appears this is not the case. I would suggest attending an event as a participant, then revisting this thread as you have made statements that become contrary to your experience within the group (and maybe not). The formulation of your initial thread is "argumentative" as I stated and there is nothing wrong with that. If you feel it is "fact" then this back and forth bantering is a waste of computer space. Really interesting to get an external point of view on the RTR DE program even if I dissagreee with the comments.
As far as Club Racing, if you have a driver log and your prior license a provisional license can be obtained with Rookie status. If 944 spec is too slow, try GTC1,2 or GTR. Winning FTD at the Glen this year was 1:52 full course. I think that would be fast enough considering mid pack on Rolex runs closer to 2mins. Comparison with pro racing series is more than reasonable. We have plenty of pro drivers show up to DE events and club races. Really too many as it makes club racing podiums even harder.
Like I said. Come out try an event. If submit a log book to the registrar ahead of time, you may be surprised what can be accomplished through proper channels.
I stated that I was new to RTR in my first post.
Bringing up or suggesting competitve racing a second time is off-topic and has already been addressed by me.
I don't see challenging discussion/debate as a waste of computer space. Not fully reading people's posts or ignoring them and then making comments.....hmmm? Nothing I've discussed I see as fact. It's just my opinion and observation. Which has been wrong in the past.
Let me make this really clear. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE WAY RTR DE's ARE BEING RUN. It's just different(odd) to me. Which is fine. My future participation? Maybe...time, money, more time, more money...yada yada. I like the peoples, that's for sure!
- Mike Andrews - 11-09-2006
smankow wrote:
Quote:here is the one issue that I thought would have been raised much earlier in this thread. It may be the primary component to take RTR's DE program to the next level. It's an area that I personally have not used but I know that others have and really like it. What is it?Steve,
ONLINE REGISTRATION
and region, such as Potomac, use this for all of their events, including DE, AX, etc.
I know that RTR has been looking into it. Hopefully, we can incorporate it into our 2007 events. Our program is very well run despite its manually intensive setup. Maybe we can accomplish this and upgrade our "wonderful" website at the same time.
Steve
I'll comment on the online registration in a second. But first I want to tell you guys a story about "cones".
Many years ago we were invited to come down to view the new track at Summit Point. No, not Shenandoah, Jefferson Circuit. We spend a couple of hours listening to Bill Scott talk about his new baby and what his plans were. He talked about being able to run it in either direction, how he was going to finish the runoff area and where he was going to put tire walls and so on. Heck the big equipment was out there working while he was talking about it. Around 11:00 he turned us loose to go play and asked us to let him know what we thought. Well going down the back straight towards T5 (clockwise) there was a BIG earth mover sitting off to the left. At a pretty good place to be used as a brake marker. Well, a half hour or so into running I came around the turn heading down the straight and said earth mover was driving across the track. Kurt later commented that it was a little disturbing seeing it on the track. My reply was yeah, it really screwed up my brake point
Ok, online registration. In the past couple of years we had registration at our club meetings. This was to promote the monthly meetings and to simplify things on our end. We have since moved away from registering at the meetings so that hurdle is no longer an issue. Tom, Carol and I talked about a new online system that PCA is looking at. Or something like that. Anyway, I think it is in our future.
23 hours, 55 minutes and counting ......
- Hammerin Hank - 11-09-2006
Mike Andrews wrote:
Quote:Steve,
I'll comment on the online registration in a second. But first I want to tell you guys a story about "cones".
Many years ago we were invited to come down to view the new track at Summit Point. No, not Shenandoah, Jefferson Circuit. We spend a couple of hours listening to Bill Scott talk about his new baby and what his plans were. He talked about being able to run it in either direction, how he was going to finish the runoff area and where he was going to put tire walls and so on. Heck the big equipment was out there working while he was talking about it. Around 11:00 he turned us loose to go play and asked us to let him know what we thought. Well going down the back straight towards T5 (clockwise) there was a BIG earth mover sitting off to the left. At a pretty good place to be used as a brake marker. Well, a half hour or so into running I came around the turn heading down the straight and said earth mover was driving across the track. Kurt later commented that it was a little disturbing seeing it on the track. My reply was yeah, it really screwed up my brake point
Ok, online registration. In the past couple of years we had registration at our club meetings. This was to promote the monthly meetings and to simplify things on our end. We have since moved away from registering at the meetings so that hurdle is no longer an issue. Tom, Carol and I talked about a new online system that PCA is looking at. Or something like that. Anyway, I think it is in our future.
23 hours, 55 minutes and counting ......
Earth mover? That's funny! I once used a dead ground hog as a mark down by the T1 on the Summit circuit. It was fine until someone knocked it way down in the weeds. After that, I found it best to used more "fixed" points like the painted strips and such.
P.S. I wonder if Brian M. was at that event?
![[Image: 4_1_213.gif]](http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_213.gif)
<<caddyshack carl voice on>> Gopher! <<off>>- Hammerin Hank - 11-09-2006
elizabeth26 wrote:
Quote: How many RTR events have you run in? What kind of cars do you track?A few RTR autox's.
I have (2) cars. Both are 2.0l Nissans. One's turbo'd, one is NA. At the Point, the NA car runs mid 30's. It would be faster gutted and with cams, but then the street fun factor lessens. It also makes a good autox car. (3rd fastest overall at the last RTR event, damn MINI's) The turbo car is low/mid 20's. It's more of a handful. It's still streetable, but barely. It's pretty stiff and not very comfy. It's a missle when it's not breaking. Turbo cars, what can you say?
Josette also wants me to drive her 14 at some point. For me, the issue is headroom. The seats are going to have to be reworked for me to fit. I guess the plan is to address that over the winter. Me in a Porch, whodathunk? LOL
- smankow - 11-09-2006
Hank, good commentary. If nothing else, we can all agree to disagree. I think the whole purpose of this thread was to examine what other groups do differently than RTR. Different doesn't mean good or bad, better or worse. Just different. As Mike has stated throughout that they continually look to improve the program. And this thread is proof of that, despite some of the banter.
I've met and spoken with Hank at several events this season. He's a good guy who is only voicing how other groups do things and asked about how RTR does things. I'd welcome him to any of our events in whatever car he drives. As a side note, he showed up very early for our last AX event and helped us clear the course of fallen debris. Thanks again, Hank!
I've said earlier that RTR runs a great program, which is evident with their looking to improve beliefs. While I may not agree with all of the ideas presented, no one is saying that any or all items will be implemented (this is NOT directed at anyone).
In the past, I've talked with Mike about how other regions register at the event. We discussed the pros and cons of both. You quickly learn that there is reasoning for how we do things that aren't necessarily apparent and they are there for all of our safety.
As for Schattenbaum, I ran with them last year in their blue/yellow group (blue ran uninstructed) and it was quite scary. Yes, there was a vast difference in speed and abilities, but several of the "solos" forgot to use mirrors for several laps. And, we all know that Shenandoah/SP flaggers don't use the Blue flag too often. But, as previously stated, seat time is still seat time.
And by my clock, it's about 22 1/2 hours until the track goes hot
Steve
- Hammerin Hank - 11-09-2006
smankow wrote:
Quote:Hank, good commentary. If nothing else, we can all agree to disagree. I think the whole purpose of this thread was to examine what other groups do differently than RTR. Different doesn't mean good or bad, better or worse. Just different. As Mike has stated throughout that they continually look to improve the program. And this thread is proof of that, despite some of the banter.
I've met and spoken with Hank at several events this season. He's a good guy who is only voicing how other groups do things and asked about how RTR does things. I'd welcome him to any of our events in whatever car he drives. As a side note, he showed up very early for our last AX event and helped us clear the course of fallen debris. Thanks again, Hank!
I've said earlier that RTR runs a great program, which is evident with their looking to improve beliefs. While I may not agree with all of the ideas presented, no one is saying that any or all items will be implemented (this is NOT directed at anyone).
In the past, I've talked with Mike about how other regions register at the event. We discussed the pros and cons of both. You quickly learn that there is reasoning for how we do things that aren't necessarily apparent and they are there for all of our safety.
As for Schattenbaum, I ran with them last year in their blue/yellow group (blue ran uninstructed) and it was quite scary. Yes, there was a vast difference in speed and abilities, but several of the "solos" forgot to use mirrors for several laps. And, we all know that Shenandoah/SP flaggers don't use the Blue flag too often. But, as previously stated, seat time is still seat time.
And by my clock, it's about 22 1/2 hours until the track goes hot
Steve
Thanks Steve. I appreciate the kind words. I agree with your comments thats it's just different. Right, wrong, whatever. I tend to have a strong opinion that sometimes comes off the wrong way. My apoligies, if it offends. Sometimes, things need challenging to make sure they're on solid ground, though. It sounds like RTR's DE program works very well and people are happy with it. So, I'd say it's solid, based on what I've heard and seen. It might error at little too much on the side of caution for some folks, but, as was pointed out by Mike and Brian, there are reasons for that. It's all good. Just as long as people are having fun and no one gets hurt.
- smankow - 11-13-2006
Here's another point:
Other regions required any/all out of region registrants to have their chief instructor send the registrar verification of qualifications and current run group. In fact, over the summer, I registered for Potomac's web site in anticipation of possibly attending one of their events. Their registration process automatically places all new drivers into the green group until the qualifications are verified.
After some of the non-region drivers at our last few events, this may be a good idea to consider.
Any thoughts?
Steve