+- Riesentöter Forums (https://rtr-pca.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Club Activities (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Forum: Driver's Education (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=29)
+--- Thread: DE insurance (/showthread.php?tid=1699)
- cjbcpa - 11-02-2009
Given my recent hay bale/guardrail incident at MAW , I thought I'd revive this thread and share my experiences as I file a claim with Lockton.
I've been purchasing their single event coverage for the last 18 months. Over this time, I've assigned a value to my car from $12,000 to $16,500, increasing mostly due to the improvements and mechanical work I have had done to it (more on this later). At this level, rates have ranged from $100 to $120 per event with a $1,500 deductible. Premiums are per event regardless of the number of days. They offer coverage up to a maximum of $100,000. Also included in their coverage is $500 of towing and up to $10,000 for hazardous material spills. Obviously, the rates increase the more coverage you purchase.
On Saturday of MAW, I hit some water on T13 of Thunderbolt that upset the car and caused it to go off track to the driver’s side. The wet/muddy grass compounded events and all I could do was put two feet in and wait for impact. I hit the front of the car with a bias towards the driver’s side. Once I got a look at the damage, I could tell it was significant, but I didn't think it was fatal. In fact, I thought I got pretty lucky; I didn't even drop any fluids. All the damage appeared to be in front of the tires. No damage to the shock tower area, nothing there was bent and all the seams looked intact.
I filled out the claim forms Sunday over breakfast and called first thing Monday morning. Because I had purchased the insurance Wed or Thurs. before MAW, my policy wasn't even in the system yet. The CSR took my info and said someone would get back to me. Well, of course I was impatient and after a few calls during the week, an appraiser called me to set up a meeting for the following Monday.
At 7:30am the next Monday, the appraiser arrived and was not as encouraging as I had hoped. He kept saying, these Porsche have a lot of "stuff" hidden behind the bumpers. Now I'm worried. I'm thinking, sure a 996 or 997 sure does. Maybe this guy's not real experienced with the front engine variety. Of course the front sheet metal was toast, but the hood wasn’t even buckled. Unfortunately, the ends of the two boxed “arms�? or girders that extend the length of the car (typical for unibody construction, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unibody#Automobiles) were bent. One was bent pretty badly. I will concede it was difficult to see everything considering how cramped the engine compartment on these.
So much for the first installment. Chapter two, the results, to follow shortly.
CB
- George3 - 11-02-2009
Hi Chris,
Firstly, I'm very sorry to hear about your off on Saturday at MAW. I had to leave early that day, since I was leaving for vacation and I wasn't aware of it. (and, btw thanks for the offer on the ride along). The good news is that you're alright.
It's considerate of you to continue this thread with your post. It will give others a chance to see what type of experience you have with Lockton Affinity.
My cars are mostly insured through WSIB... which has already been tested in the club. However, I have purchased the single event coverage with Lockton when my nephew comes along to drive one of my cars at DE events.
Keep us informed and GL with your claim.
G
- cjbcpa - 11-03-2009
Chapter two, the appraisal results
All week long I had been mulling over the potential outcomes. Do I want the car to be fixable? Should I buy back the car if it is totaled? I had insured the car for $16,500 plus safety gear. My thinking was, that’s about the number it would take to get back into a comparable low mileage 951 that was finally pretty well sorted out, at least until 3:30PM, October 17th.
Four days after the appraiser’s visit, I rec’d the anticipated call from the insurance co. The appraiser had indicated the car was a total loss, ouch. The paperwork included a very detailed repair estimate that totaled $22,300. The value given by the appraiser was $13,500, i.e. Actual Cash Value or ACV. According to the adjuster, the limit of coverage is the lesser of declared value or ACV. I re-read the policy and this was in fact the case. I had been feeling pretty smug all week so naturally, I was disappointed by this development. In effect, I had slightly over-insured the car for that weekend. It would not have changed the premium, but probably did give me a false sense of security. Lesson here: read the fine print and know the approximate ACV of your vehicle before you insure. This way, a) no surprises, and b) you’ll know how much time you’ll need to strip the go fast goodies from your car before filing a claim.
There was almost no detail surrounding the $13,500 value. This value did not come from your typical NADA or KBB guide. The appriaser quoted the car as “Unlisted�? which IIRC means there was not enough information from these traditional sources to value the car. As a result, dealer quotes and the appraisers judgement were used in coming up with the value. This saved my bacon. To those of you familiar with 951’s, they can be found all day long with 100k+ miles for $7,500 to $10,000. The issue is these have often been beat to death, have very limited paperwork history and/ or have had their motors juiced to within an inch of their life. I had made a point of noting this to the appraiser as well as commenting on the recent top end rebuild and safety gear I had installed. This, plus the relatively low mileage of my car, may have paid off somewhat in $13,500 figure.
To come, my final chapter, the settlement.
- cjbcpa - 11-04-2009
Final Chapter, the settlement
All in all, I was pretty happy with the ACV. That kind of money would buy a pretty nice example of a stock 951 or even a dedicated track version that was hopefully well cared for. However, more goes into settling the claim than simply the ACV. First, the deductible of $1,500 comes off the top and then the issue of buying the salvage vehicle needs to be considered.
Those that know me well know I am a cheapskate. I have kept the receipt for every single service done to the car. So I knew all to well how much money I had tied up in my 951. In fact, as of MAW, between major service, maintenance and upgrades, I had paid for the car nearly twice over (note to self, stop keeping these records.) As I tallied up the value of just the easy to remove bits, buying the car back was a no-brainer. This decision was also easy because I have a lift and enough space to tear down the car.
The appraiser had secured salvage estimates from three local yards that offered from $500 to $750 for the car. The adjuster had also gone on line and found salvage yards offering 944’s at $1,033 and up. Accordingly, their salvage price to buy the car back was $1,033.
So far their offer stacks up as $13,500 ACV, less $1,500 deducible, less $1,033 to buy the salvage car back or $10,967. We’re not done yet though. For reasons that an insurance expert will have to explain, their ACV of $13,500 was grossed up by 6% or $810 for sales tax. I’m not certain if this is a regulatory requirement or their practice but it never would have occurred to me to question if it wasn’t on the proposed settlement. I assume the rationale is any purchase of a replacement would require ponying up sales tax as well so this is added on top? Including this pleaseant adjustment, my total is now $11,777.
I definitely wanted to buy the car back. I know there is potential at least a few thousand dollars of parts in it if I was willing to put in the effort, but I felt their value of $1,033 was really a reaction to the high ACV given by the appraiser. So, wanting to counter-offer a lower number, but also trying to keep the number within the adjustors approval range, I offered to buy the car back at $810, lower than $1,033, a little higher than the local numbers, and crafted to result in a nice even $12,000 payout.
I made my proposal to the adjustor by phone. He thought it would fly without too much of an issue, just needed to check with his manager. So, after a suitable wait, he e-mailed me revised paper work reflecting all of the above, or an even $12,000. I now must send in the completed, notarized claim forms along with a copy of the title and a copy of the incident report.
All in all, the claim was handled pretty efficiently and without major hiccups. Of course, I wish that I never had to go through all this. But on the bright side, I come out of this with enough cash to get back into a car in at least as good a condition as mine was. Just waiting for the check now.
- StoogeMoe203 - 11-04-2009
Hey Chris, I'm no collision expert, but that car looks definitely repairable to me. $22k for repairs is a joke. They must quoting Porsche retail prices for new parts. You can get used parts from a dismantler like 944 Ecology or dc automotive. My guess is with that settlement you can get your car back into original shape and have enough left over for some major new suspension upgrades and a new set of tires.
If you don't want to do the repair work yourself, can you get someone like Knopf collision to do an estimate on the repair cost? Even if they come up with numbers that would make it prohibitive to repair it, you could still come out way ahead by parting it out.
The one nice thing is you have all winter to get her back together instead of scrambling for the next event.
- cjbcpa - 11-04-2009
I'm tearing the car down now so I can get a better look. Once I do, I will have someone else take a look at it. From what I can see so far, there is damage on the drivers side wheel housing and frame rail. Replacing these would be some pretty major surgery, although I'm sure it could be done. Perhaps the wheel housing could be "unbent", but the frame rail will need to be cut out and a replacement welded in somehow. Once I get a little further I'll try and post some picture.
I'm lucky that the settlement allows me to pursue all kinds of options. Worst case, I will find another car and part this one out.
Stay tuned.
CB
- Darren - 11-04-2009
I have a nice shell with cage for sale
Also an 86 btw, very straight body.
- JoeP - 11-05-2009
Chris: If your frame is seriously bent up front, you might consider installing a cage that includes a tube structure up front to replace the thin boxed sections. Covering the whole mess with fiberglass bodywork can be chaeper if you do a lot of the work yourself and do not require showcar quality. A friend did this out in Pittsburgh after a crash, but I'm not sure about prices around here.
- cjbcpa - 11-09-2009
Joe,
Thanks, I'm eager to do as much work as I can, but that is way beyond what I have the skills for, much less the time to do and be ready for next years DE season.
I've begun tearing down the front end and found that both frame rails would need to be cut out and replaced, not just the drivers side. As a result, I've decided my best route is to buy a replacement and transfer or part out the good pieces of my car. In fact, may have already sourced a well prepped car. Stay tuned.
CB
- Racingswh - 11-10-2009
I am just glad you're ok. I hate to see that.
Sounds like a car will be back on the track for next season. Good luck and if you need help with anything just send me a PM. Happy to drink beer and watch you work anytime!!
Steve W. Hoagland