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+--- Thread: New Detroit bailout plan (/showthread.php?tid=1404)
- RCohen - 12-12-2008
Sorry for bringing up a touchy subject but this idea is floating around some other forums and I thought it might be interesting to get the feedback here.
Rather than give the car companies money, give the taxpayer a credit for 50% of the purchase or lease cost of a new car. Personally I favor a lease with full maintenance, as this takes a lot of the quality issues and places them back where they belong.
We the public then get to vote on who survives and what cars should be dropped.
Let the battle(discussion) begin!
- ccm911 - 12-12-2008
Now come on! Actually buy a domestic piece of crap!
Between the Crooked Unions and the Inept management, are we really to believe that these companies will suddenly begin to build a decent car?
This whole situation is nothing more than a strongarm attempt by the Union Mobsters to extort money from the taxpayer. If the taxpayer buys a domestic, they win. If the taxpayer does not, they still win. They get bailed out regardless.
I will never buy an American car for as long as I live! I grew up in the seventies, and the cars were just an embarrassment to our country. I mean we could put a man on the moon, but we can't build a decent car?
- JIMK - 12-12-2008
"Earlier today, the heads of the GM, Ford, and Chrysler appeared together in front of Congress to ask for a $25 billion bailout. When asked what they would do with the money, all three said, 'Buy a new Porsche.'"
- emayer - 12-12-2008
I say let 'em sink. The notion that millions will be unemployed and suppliers etc. will go under is not entirely accurate. I'm sure there are plenty of foreign automakers who could easily fill the void using these existing assembly lines. Many suppliers/ ancillary companies sell to these firms already anyway.
Forcing these companies into bankruptcy could yield a leaner, consolidated firm with the potential to (finally) build a quality product....
Enough with the handouts already. I'm pissed to hear that AIG is handing out hefty "retention" bonuses this year. How about letting the taxpayer "retain" something instead? Sounds like the easiest and most equitable way of getting this economy running again.
- nplenzick - 12-12-2008
I think Randy has a good idea here, we're not loaning them anything just giving interested buyers something to think about and the big three an opportunity to get it right. The bottom line is this; no matter how you do it we can't let the car companies go away, not now, not in this economy. We are at the point that if we let them fail our economy will be history and what some of you who thought that it would be a good idea that we experience a depression will get your wish.
As for the domestic car manufactures making crap in the 70's,I still remember the crap all to well that Porsche made then, especially that 2.7.
- RCohen - 12-12-2008
Chris, when was the last time you drove a new american car? Nothing like a stereotype without relevant information. I am not defending Detroit, I had a full ride in college on GM's tab but bailed because the crap they sold was such junk. The last american car I bought was in 86 and fell apart after 60K miles. But I will not make a statement about the quality of their cars today without trying a couple.
Given the right situation I would give them another chance and hope they hear the changes needed. I object to the government just goving out money. With this concept it would be survival of the best cars , not the best complainers.
- nplenzick - 12-12-2008
emayer wrote:
Quote:I say let 'em sink. The notion that millions will be unemployed and suppliers etc. will go under is not entirely accurate. I'm sure there are plenty of foreign automakers who could easily fill the void using these existing assembly lines. Many suppliers/ ancillary companies sell to these firms already anyway.
Forcing these companies into bankruptcy could yield a leaner, consolidated firm with the potential to (finally) build a quality product....
Enough with the handouts already. I'm pissed to hear that AIG is handing out hefty "retention" bonuses this year. How about letting the taxpayer "retain" something instead? Sounds like the easiest and most equitable way of getting this economy running again.
Yea that's what we need, more foreign companies taking their profits and sending them back to their home countries.
Forcing these companies into bankruptcy would collapse the stock market. Who would buy a car from a bankrupt company? Not me! What would happen to the warranty's on the cars that people have now? No one knows but bankruptcy could give anyone of the big three the legal right to not honer them along with just writing off the stock owned by stock holders.
It's interesting how quick we bailed out the banking industry and the amount of money they received. Don't think other countries don't subsidize their auto industries, they have been doing it for years. If the French government didn't step in to help Reanult in the 70's they would be history today. They even want as far to help their F1 team at the time!
We gave tax incentives up to a few years ago for people to buy SUV's, so what's wrong with what the original poster suggested?
- AMoore - 12-12-2008
Another question we should be asking, is why is our economy so dependent on one industry? Sort of gives the manufacturers a license to hold a gun to our heads. Maybe we need to get our buts kicked in order to put ourselves into a position where our economy is not so dependent on one industry.
- nplenzick - 12-12-2008
AMoore wrote:
Quote:Another question we should be asking, is why is our economy so dependent on one industry? Sort of gives the manufacturers a license to hold a gun to our heads. Maybe we need to get our buts kicked in order to put ourselves into a position where our economy is not so dependent on one industry.Our economy isn't really dependent on one industry and I for one wouldn't be heartbroken if one of the big three go away but now is not the time for it. The stock market was ready to tank this morning, foreign exchanges were down big time on the news about our auto industry bail out (who say's we don't lead the world). Luckily Bush has step in and said their considering using money that's already been allocated for retooling. Probably the most presidential thing he has done in eight years.
- emayer - 12-12-2008
nplenzick wrote:
Quote:emayer wrote:Quote:I say let 'em sink. The notion that millions will be unemployed and suppliers etc. will go under is not entirely accurate. I'm sure there are plenty of foreign automakers who could easily fill the void using these existing assembly lines. Many suppliers/ ancillary companies sell to these firms already anyway.
Forcing these companies into bankruptcy could yield a leaner, consolidated firm with the potential to (finally) build a quality product....
Enough with the handouts already. I'm pissed to hear that AIG is handing out hefty "retention" bonuses this year. How about letting the taxpayer "retain" something instead? Sounds like the easiest and most equitable way of getting this economy running again.
Yea that's what we need, more foreign companies taking their profits and sending them back to their home countries.
Forcing these companies into bankruptcy would collapse the stock market. Who would buy a car from a bankrupt company? Not me! What would happen to the warranty's on the cars that people have now? No one knows but bankruptcy could give anyone of the big three the legal right to not honer them along with just writing off the stock owned by stock holders.
It's interesting how quick we bailed out the banking industry and the amount of money they received. Don't think other countries don't subsidize their auto industries, they have been doing it for years. If the French government didn't step in to help Reanult in the 70's they would be history today. They even want as far to help their F1 team at the time!
We gave tax incentives up to a few years ago for people to buy SUV's, so what's wrong with what the original poster suggested?
Nothing is wrong with the original proposal at all, arguably I've broadened things further by letting the taxpayer keep more to help restart the economy altogether- not just one failing industry.
Companies come and go as do entire industries yet the stock market will ultimately prevail. Provided that is we show faith in American ingenuity and our capacity to evolve from dire circumstances.... Bankruptcy will force all affected parties to sit down and restructure now rather than prolonging the inevitable at our continued expense. Shouldn't the ultimate goal be for us to come out of this stronger?
The notion that we have to keep the US auto industry alive for national purposes is a weak argument at best. These companies are all international conglomerates actively trading and selling in international markets.... If memory serves GM owns Opel, SAAB while Ford owns Volvo, Aston Martin etc. The list goes on. Meanwhile MB, BMW, VW, Toyota, Hyundai, Honda all manufacture and use suppliers here. What's wrong with these American jobs?