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+--- Thread: Lessons from other regions/sponsors? (/showthread.php?tid=145)
- Phokaioglaukos - 11-06-2006
Many of us have attended events with other clubs, PCA, BMW and others. Let's discuss what they do differently than we do that we might consider emulating.
I noted that Potomac PCA did the following differently:
- At Summit Point the driver's meeting was in one classroom (warmer than outside) and the instructor's meeting was in another.[/*]
- At the driver's meeting they passed out a sticker to be placed on the windshield to prove that the driver attended the meeting.[/*]
- As soon as the last car was off the track for one session, the cars queued for the next session are sent out, holding up such of those cars not yet all the way into the paddock as necessary.[/*]
- There is a section on the tech form that someone at grid tech completes. That form is then presented at registration so a couple of people get a look at it.
The BMW clubs:
- Conduct grid tech the evening before at a local hotel (Seneca Lodge, for example), although one can also do grid tech the morning of the event. That allows some to sleep a bit later.[/*]
- Provide adhesive numbers in the registration packet for each car.[/*]
- Genesee Valley sends cars from the next group out just as soon as the last car of the previous group enters pit lane.
Let's get some differences identified, and then think about what, if anything, we might want to adopt.
- smankow - 11-06-2006
last year w/NNJR at Lime Rock, they ran continuously throughout the day. There were some short stoppages to shuffle corner workers, but no lunch break. Their feelings were (1) that the track was quite expensive and wanted to get as much track time as possible and (2) there is ample time between run groups to grab lunch (their track food is better than most).
As for the grid tech issues, even though the morning is early, I think it is better since not everyone stays at the same hotel, some arrive later than others and things "happen" on the way to the track. Also, what do they do about cars on trailers?
For this weekend, I like the indoor drivers meeting if the weather is too cold.
- Brian Minkin - 11-06-2006
I have been to other regions events that did registration and tech the night before either at the track or at the headquaters hotel. They did the grid tech for my car in the enclosed trailer. However I did not find that that this improved the event. It just made longer hours for the volunteer workers. Did give me something to do the night before the event.
However the way we do it works well and if it aint broke dont try to fix it.In regards to releasing cars and lunch breaks. This is up to the corner workers. Untill all corner workers are ready cars for the next run group will be held. Its all about saftey. At most of our events I find they release the 1st car when the last car of the prrevious run group has cleared the track. But for example at Shenandoah this summer they took water to all the corner workers and held the run groups untill the truck delivering the water was off the track. And sometimes a corner worker needs a bathroom break. You cant object to keeping the corner workers alive and their senses sharp! Of course if an incident has occured you will be held untill the track is cleaned up and safe. Having a lunch hour and bringing the corner workers off the track for lunch is also a saftey related issue. Being out in the infield on your feet is just as tiring as driving and they need a break. Other regions do their own flagging and have work assignments for corner workers (we used to) but I think professional corner workers are much better and keep us safer. But there are only so many of them to go around.
I have experienced that other regions run the 1st lap of each session under yellow flag and then go green when the 1st car completes the lap. I think this is a good policy.
Other regions issue a track pass to green and blue students in the classroom so if you try to skip the classroom you dont get admitted to the track.
The adhesive numbers affixed to the windshield works well for instructors finding their students the first time out but I know from being a corner worker, its dam hard to identify a 3 inch letter and two numbers on a windshield of a car going by at 90 MPH. This makes communication for the corner workers more difficult when all you can say is the "Black Boxster" and their are three or four of them on the track in that run group.
Yes looking at other regions events and policies is a good thing but I believe RTR puts on a great and safe event and dont want this thread to make people believe otherwise.
- Tony356993 - 11-06-2006
Quote:Yes looking at other regions events and policies is a good thing but I believe RTR puts on a great and safe event and dont want this thread to make people believe otherwise.
Brian is right on the money. RTR runs great events. I have been to many and RTR does a great job. We have all done out of region events and there are some things that are done that we might consider, therefore Chris is on the money too. I think there are always ways to improve things.
I'm not for a pre-event tech. IMHO it does not eliminate tech the next morning and as Brian stated, it requires more time for thhe vol's.
I do like Potomac's approach with making sure people attend the driver's meeting. If we a really trying to be safe, everyone must be on the same page.
Track access- I know there is an additional fee for camping & leaving trailers/RV's at the track. How much money are we talking? Would it add $10-$20 to each registration fee or is it $50 per entrant? I think if the money made sense, allowing access to the track the night before the event removes a morning of stress on the first track day. It would make things easier @ the Glen & Pocono.
Instructor/Student Introductions: After the drivers meeting, the students and the instructors are paired up in some regions. As a student, it was always stressful trying to find my instructor in a black 911.
hock:Classroom: What do you guys think about getting track maps made on heavy duty vinyl? They could be rolled up and stored in a trailer (sure mine is fine). Basically it would be like the map they have on the wall @ summit only portable. This would allow a consistency between chief instructor, instructors & students in regards to turn #'s and nomenclature. It could have the flag stations that we use on the map so novices will have a better idea where to look. We could clearly have our passing zones identified. These maps could also be used during the driver's meeting & instructor meeting.
Solo Driver event: I know there has been some talk in the past about possible adding a solo driver event. Let's take a poll over the winter on the web site and see what interest drivers would have in a mid-week (w/e's are hard to get) white and above only DE. Are solo driver's & instructors willing to pay a higher entrance fee for a day or two with a lot of track time?
Student & Instructor Only Event: I firmly believe that this years green student could be 2014's chief instructor. The survival of our DE program requires attracting new participants into our activity. Since the green and blue run group sells out the quickly, how about a 1-2 day event where there were two green groups and two blue groups and a combined instructor group. This would allow more folks to take that critical first step into DE. As we all know they will be hooked after that.
Track Orientation: As we did @ MAW, 1st timers to a specific track could get parade laps in an instructors truck/suv to see the track at a reduced speed and allow communication about the track, corner stations, etc. This would reduce anxiety the first session out.
- smankow - 11-06-2006
Tony356993 wrote:
Quote:Classroom: What do you guys think about getting track maps made on heavy duty vinyl? They could be rolled up and stored in a trailer (sure mine is fine). Basically it would be like the map they have on the wall @ summit only portable. This would allow a consistency between chief instructor, instructors & students in regards to turn #'s and nomenclature. It could have the flag stations that we use on the map so novices will have a better idea where to look. We could clearly have our passing zones identified. These maps could also be used during the driver's meeting & instructor meeting.
.... and so that Tony can work on Sharon's track knowledge on the remaining 200 days of the year that they aren't DE'ing. Poor Sharon
All kidding aside, this makes sense as does most of Tony's comments. And, in the whole picture of our track program, these are minor tweeks that will improve our program. But, if we don't keep looking at our program and comparing it against others, we could fall behind the times.
I think that this thread and it's reception says volumes about the quality of our program.
Steve
- Brian Minkin - 11-06-2006
Tony,
Those are some great and constructive ideas.
Sorry if my previous post sounded like a defensive maneuver. I simply think we have one of the best organized DE progams in the country. Ideas such as yours will extend the reach and enjoymnet of the participants
The one area that I do believe we can learn from others is classroom training. When I am out of region/club I try to sit in on the classroom sessions if I can and I have met some great instructors with classroom skills and preperation that is top flight. I have seen the use of video with slow motion and freeze frame as a teaching tool that is far superior to any track map. Of course a track map is used as well. But the video gives the student a familarization with what they will see when they are behind the wheel. Basic driving skills, safety, on track awarness and the physics of high speed driving are also presented visually along with hand outs for the students to leave with and review. I think classroom training of this caliber decreases the mental overload and makes the students easier to work with and advance.
My two cents for now
- smankow - 11-06-2006
Brian, I like the video idea. It is also a good idea for the students and solo drivers to watch videos, like Larry's and others that are available on the web prior to the event. They truly help familiarize you or refresh your memory of the track.
Steve
- Tony356993 - 11-07-2006
Brian,
I 100% agree with the video training. My thought was that the larger RTR specific track maps would be easy to use and store but Audio Visual classroom aids would be a fantastic upgrade. Not cheap, and someone would need to tote them around set up and store the items.
- Mike Andrews - 11-07-2006
Great ideas guys........
Let me work down the list. I hope I got them all.
I like the idea of the drivers meeting indoors and we do that at the Glen and at Pocono when the weather doesn't agree. Having the meeting indoor at SP may be a great idea this weekend. And we could hold the meeting indoor (upstairs) at Shenandoah. The only place that wouldn't work is Jefferson Circuit.
A sticker at the drivers meeting is not a bad idea, do we know of people that don't attend the drivers meeting? If so, why doesn't that information get back to me? Should we try something at this week’s event to see who doesn't come?
Sending the next car out is controlled by the corner worker crew. Some of them are comfortable starting the course check a little earlier than the others. We finally got the guys at the Glen to start releasing the cars as the group out on track is coming out of the boot...... On the smaller tracks I don't know that an extra 30 seconds is that big a deal but I guess if it's there we might as well use it.
We have done grid tech at the hotel on the night prior in the past. And it coincided with cars showing up at pit out the next day with stuff still in the back seat. This is something where I think it should be done at the track. If time is an issue then we should solicit more volunteers and run an extra tech line. Actually I like that idea, add another line and spend a little more time with each car. Especially on day two and three of the event.
Yep, those numbers are a great idea. I don't understand why people haven't bought them for themselves, it's not like you don't have the same number for pretty much your entire life at RTR
. Of course we could add a couple bucks to everyone entrance fee and then create a supply of numbers for people to use. Heck, I can't even get people to bring the same car they registered with ....LOL.... But while we are on the topic, numbers on all four corners of your car!Yep, we thought about running non stop, but the corner workers don't agree. Of course if we wanted to start own corner working
hock: we could do that. Trust me, I think this is better left the way it is.First lap on a yellow. I've never understood this. You know the track is cold, or rather your tires are cold. Everyone should be able to get around the track and manage their speed. And when someone comes up behind a guy that's being extra careful they can get around rather than being stuck for a lap with no passing under a yellow flag. This one is no big deal either way and if the general population wanted a yellow for the first lap, or two, we could certainly make that change.
Access to the track varies by track. The guys at Summit Point are pretty cool about early access. Pocono wants $500 for security. While that's only 5 bucks per person I don't know how many people would want to stay overnight at Pocono. I can't remember what the Glen charges but I think they are pretty cool about letting people stay over the nights that we are there. They just don't let us in the night before. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that assigning the garages went a long way in addressing some of the confusion in setting up at the Glen?
Finding students - instructors can be an issue. I've heard some regions parade (introduce) their instructors through the drivers meeting so the students can find them. FWIW, I know of a few instructors that take their assignments and contact their student(s) the week before. That opens up a communication and I would also suspect helps in finding each other at the track. Tony, if you need any help finding your student at this event, just let me know and I'll introduce her to you.
The maps are a great idea. And the video is an even better one. We should bring this up to Tom/Jack and see if they can incorporate this into 2007. Does this already exist for the tracks that we use?
We continually talk about a solo day. We used to have two but one of them was consumed by MAW. Again, we should see about adding a one day event at Pocono. One where we could just drive up in the morning and go home at the end of the day. We'd only have to take one day off of work. And here's a twist on that day and your suggestion of more space for students. How about we have a one day event and have the students pay for the whole track and dinner for the instructors. It wouldn't cost any more than usual but having an extra student group would more than offset the cost of the free instructor portion. The instructors would need to buy into this as it would certainly work them harder than a normal event. But I do think it's something most of our guys would do if it were only once a year or every other year. It's something we've talked about but never put it into motion.
I/we appreciate all of your kind comments, a number of people work very hard putting these events together. And we appreciate all of your suggestions. We certainly don’t have all the answers and when you guys see something new or isn’t obvious to us then we want/need to know about it. It a family effort and I like the fact that it continues to grow.
- Brian Minkin - 11-07-2006
Mike Andrews wrote:
Quote:First lap on a yellow. I've never understood this. You know the track is cold, or rather your tires are cold. Everyone should be able to get around the track and manage their speed. And when someone comes up behind a guy that's being extra careful they can get around rather than being stuck for a lap with no passing under a yellow flag. This one is no big deal either way and if the general population wanted a yellow for the first lap, or two, we could certainly make that change.Mike,
I have witnessed (been part off) very agressive driving on cold tires and brakes in the first lap of our events in the upper run groups. Mostly on sessions 2,3 and 4. Seems like most drivers heed the caution advice on the 1st run. I have also seen some great saves and spins on that first lap. Under yellow is just a reminder for that first lap that you need to warm things up.
In the student run groups not having to worry about someone wanting to pass for the first lap gives the student and instructors time to locate all the flag stations and review what they need to work on this session.
Ive done it both ways as a student, solo driver and instructor. I simply like the yellow as some time to prepare and set focus on the next 20 + minutes regardless of your roll in the car.
Thanks for listening
Brian