+- Riesentöter Forums (https://rtr-pca.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Club Activities (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Forum: Driver's Education (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=29)
+--- Thread: We're Faster on the Straights (/showthread.php?tid=1880)
- catchacab - 09-13-2009
So I had a very good weekend at Lightning. I ran in yellow signoff (basically our blue uninstructed) since it was the last run group I had run with that region. I emailed them asking for an instructor, but didn't receive a reply nor an instructor. I did get a ride from Rick Betterly prior to my first run session. I exceeded my objectives for the weekend. Objective 1: Learn the track, Objective exceeded. I taught myself the track, but I did have help thanks to the ride from Rick, and a few friends that posted or emailed me videos Glen, Graham, Steve and George, and a few guys at the track who talked to me about the line. Thank you John R., Iceben, Pete T., Joe D. and James F. 2. Be safe, came home without incident.
The entire weekend there was a 996 GT3 in our group with an instructor on board, that was not very good at giving pass. My next to last run, I passed some cars eventually driving behind a friend I made driving a 997S on street tires. Immediately in front of him the GT3. For two laps the 997S's nose was right up the ass of the GT3, but no pass signals. Frustrated, he felt that I should have a try at the GT3 and he let me pass. I filled his mirrors with my car by staying right behind him for a lap. No pass signal. I decided I would try a different technique taught to me a few years ago by John R. at the Glen (he was my instructor) Because of the speed we were going I was able to drive off line, so when the GT3 would turn in, he would see my car coming or his instructor would see me at their door. I did this at all turns with the exception of turn 5. Two laps still no pass. Even with a flagger showing him the passing flag each lap. Finally, on third lap just before entering the lightbulb, I got the pass signal. Took it, and then the checkered flag came out.
After the session I went up to the GT3 to talk with the instructor about the lack of passing signals not only for me but for the rest to the group. When I asked him, why he wasn't telling his student to give a pass, he replied "Because we're faster on the straights." Ugh.
- Darren - 09-13-2009
Yeah well....such is DE. Every time I bring my Acura to an event I deal with this. I can't pass a 996 with Hoosier race slicks on the straight. Last event I asked one black driver "How come you didn't let me pass". "I saw you wave it off". Well first, if I waved it off give it again. Second I wasn't waving it off I was saying "SLOW DOWN!!!!"
- nplenzick - 09-14-2009
It's been a few years now since I've instructed at a RTR event so here's my two cents.
This is drivers ed, not a race. If it was a race you could simply out-brake this guy in one of the slower sections of the track. You really should have just pulled into the pits and wait 25 seconds or so and re-entered the track. You also should have made the chief instructor aware of this and that driver should have been black flagged.
- George3 - 09-14-2009
Congrats on running the Lightning course. Great track, isn't it?
That's one of the problems with Driver Ed. Unfortunately, the Instructor was incorrect with his answer and should have been more considerate. Anyone can put their foot down in the straights. If you can catch him in the corners, you deserve the pass signal. I've had situations like that in the past and have talked with folks. Fortunately, they were more considerate in the subsequent run sessions. Although I do remember a recent RTR event at Summit Point where the instructor in the car in front was not as considerate. Two laps I followed until I finally got the point.
- Dan Yonker - 09-14-2009
George....
What are the repercussions if you just pass a slower car without a signal? Not that I am recommending this, but I have seen it performed by others, on occassion. I should mention this was with other regions.
- George3 - 09-14-2009
I'm gonna go out on a limb here. Yes, it only happens at other PCA regions
.Certain guys that run with each other a lot and know each others cars, and each others track awareness skills do it all the time. They don't get in trouble, black flagged or yelled at because they're part of the inner circle.
I had a deserving oppotunity or two to do so, but never have. I never take that kind of risk on the un-offered pass. You just don't know what the other guy is about to do.
- KennyB - 09-14-2009
Very disappointing. I drive a 996 GT3, and I get more exercise with my left arm than I do with my left leg! (Hopefully, that will diminish with time)
That kind of behavior should not be acceptable in a DE setting, and the instructor should know better.
- Lainey - 09-14-2009
Interesting..... I was at Lightning on Sunday around 11AM (to see the track, plus it was a gorgeous day for a drive) The vibe I caught was not such a "friendly" group of folks. Seemed like a great course to run on but a lousy one to try to watch anything. I drove around to the paddock once and everyone had their noses down, except for a guy Dave in a black Cayman - #771 who talked a bit just about to go out in the white group.
Sorry to hear about the lack of "point by" courtesy, especially from the instructor. Good advice tho, to pit in and hope the car doesn't catch you. I guess I'll just stick with our RTR guys until I get more seat time/experience.
- catchacab - 09-14-2009
The area you met Dave didn't have the friendliest people. You were steps away from the notorious GT3. We were a bit further out in the Paddock, three caymans two 993s and two 997s. We would have warmly welcomed you.
There were many outgoing people there. I met a couple of rennlisters, and reconncted with some people I haven't seen a couple of years.
- catchacab - 09-14-2009
The area you met Dave didn't have the friendliest people. You were steps away from the notorious GT3. We were a bit further out in the Paddock, three caymans two 993s and two 997s. We would have warmly welcomed you.
There were many outgoing people there. I met a couple of rennlisters, and reconncted with some people I haven't seen a couple of years.