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+--- Thread: Harnesses - NJ Requirements (/showthread.php?tid=1985)
- larrybard - 11-04-2009
I'm going back to NJMP this weekend with Schattenbaum. (First time I've ever been to a DE event other than with RTR.)
Someone mentioned to me that not only may the NJ police be onsite, but that they may check harnesses, and in the past they have required that harnesses be no more than 2 years old. My current 6 point harnesses are more than 2, but less than 5, years old.
My recollection is that PCA has a 5 year rule. In addition, although I read what I think are the relevant NJ requirements (at http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/racing_regulations.pdf ) as I read the provisions relating to harnesses (§ 13:62-3.7 Safety belts, shoulder harness and crotch belt), they apply only to vehicles participating "in racing, racing event practice, qualifying or testing" -- for which a minimum of 5 point harnesses are required -- but DE is probably not under the definitions of those terms (but instead under the definition of "driving school"), and any harnesses would only have to satisfy the requirements of DOT FMVSS 209. I didn't see anything about a two year limit (or any other time limit) in 209 -- but then again, it was a lot to wade through, and I might have missed it.
So is it true that my 6 point harnesses cannot legally be used for DE at NJMP under NJ law? Or was my friend mistaken about the police enforcing a 2 year limit -- or the police mistaken about the law?
Thanks,
Larry
- STEVEMCMORN - 11-04-2009
Hey Larry - yes its true.
I was at NJMP this weekend with NSAS NE and so was a state trooper.
He checked seat belts and stopped 3 or 4 people from going on the track as their seats belts > 2 yrs old ................ + he also issued 2 speeding tickets for driving in the paddock > 15mph!
- Larry Herman - 11-04-2009
Here is the section that applies:
[size=2]
§ 13:62-3.7 Safety belts, shoulder harness and crotch belt
[/size][size=2](a) Safety belts are required at all times for any vehicles (except motorcycles), and any occupant of any vehicle, that is allowed on any portion of the race track.
(b) Safety belts for driving schools, time trials, lapping days, and promotional and tour events must meet the standards required by the sanctioning body or event organizer. At a minimum, original vehicle equipment DOT FMVSS 208, incorporated herein by reference and available at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/FMVSS/index.html, seat belts or DOT FMVSS 209, incorporated herein by reference and available at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/FMVSS/index.html, aftermarket seat belts shall be required.
[size=2][size=2]© All vehicles (except motorcycles) participating inracing, racing event practice, qualifying or testing shall require a minimum of a five-point safety belt for each occupant meeting one of the following standards:
1. SFI 16.1 or SFI 16.5, incorporated herein by reference and available at
http://www.sfifoundation.com, seat belts shall be valid until December 31st of the second year after the date of manufacture punched or indicated on the SFI tag. There shall be one original tag attached to one of the two shoulder belts, one original tag attached to one of the lap belts and a third original tag attached to the crotch belt.
2. FIA 8853, incorporated herein by reference and available at http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/standregs.html, seat belts shall be valid for five years from the year of manufacture. Belts are stamped or printed with an expiration year. FIA seat belts expire on December 31 of the year printed or stamped on the FIA tag. FIA tags are located on each leg of the shoulder belt and lap belt, and on one leg of the crotch strap.
(d) Safety belts must be installed according to the manufacturer's recommendations and to the guidelines of the sanctioning organization.
(e) Four-, five-, and six-point seat belts shall not be used in conjunction with any original equipment vehicle seat that has integrated headrest without a direct pass thru for proper installation of a double shoulder belt.
(f) Crotch straps, in any installation, shall not be routed around the front of a seat.
So what this says is that for DE's the belts must meet the sanctioning bodies rules (i.e. PCA) and for racing the manufacturers rules (i.e. 2 years for SFI and 5 years for FIA belts).
[/size][/size][/size]
- larrybard - 11-04-2009
Larry Herman wrote:
Quote:. . . .[size=2][size=2][size=2]
So what this says is that for DE's the belts must meet the sanctioning bodies rules (i.e. PCA) and for racing the manufacturers rules (i.e. 2 years for SFI and 5 years for FIA belts).[/size][/size][/size]
Okay, for an RTR, Schattenbaum, etc. DE event the belts and harnesses must satisfy PCA rules. If I'm correct that PCA requires that harnesses be no more than 5 years old (not 2), then why have the state troopers been enforcing a 2 year rule?
What don't I understand?
- Larry Herman - 11-04-2009
There is a lot of mis-information out there. It may be the police who do not understand what rules they are inforcing. It was at a NASA event. They may have the 2 year SFI limit even for DEs. Until one of the "offenders" explains exactly what happened, we will not really know.
- TwentySix - 11-04-2009
Safety belts for driving schools, time trials, lapping days, and promotional and tour events must meet the standards required by the sanctioning body or event organizer
First off, no tickets were issued. The trooper found a few harnesses that were not in compliance with NASA regulations, and they had to bring their belts into spec if they wanted to run on the track. NASA required 2 years on SFI belts, and 5 years on FIA belts, as long as you are in compliance with the group you run with there should be no problem.
Both Schattenbaum and RTR use the PCA National Minimum Standard for regulating DE, not PCA Club Racing rules, which can be found on RTR Safety Tech page:
6) Harnesses which are five (5) years old or older must be replaced. (2004 or earlier must be replaced.)
- Harness Systems: If the participant chooses to install a 5- or 6-point driving harness several changes to the automobile must be made to create a safe occupant restraint system. Harnesses must include a antisubmarine strap and be mounted in an approved manner consistent the manufacturer’s instructions. The Harness system must be used in conjunction with a seat which has the supplied routing holes for the shoulder and antisubmarine belts. All pieces of the restraint system must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions. This means that a seat is required to have the proper routing holes for the harness as supplied by the seat manufacturer for the shoulder and anti-submarine straps. The shoulder straps should be mounted at 90 degrees to the axis of your spine or at most 40 degrees down from horizontal. Because the addition of the harness system means that the occupants are fastened upright in the vehicle, a properly padded roll bar or roll cage is strongly encouraged to complete the SYSTEM. The use of one without the other may result in an unsafe environment and is not a COMPLETE SYSTEM. Due to UV degradation and wear the harness webbing must be replaced every five years.
Four point systems are not allowed in Porsches because of the integrated headrest supplied by the factory. In addition to the standard SFI and/ or FIA approved 5- and/or 6-point system, a 4-point system is allowed in non-Porsches that meet the following requirements:
- Meets the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 209.
- Attaches to the factory seat belt mounting points.
- Each belt is designed to work in a specific vehicle and that vehicle tag must be attached to the belt system.
An example of a system that meets the above criteria is the Schroth Quick Fit system.[/*]
- STEVEMCMORN - 11-04-2009
TwentySix wrote:
Quote:First off, no tickets were issued. The trooper found a few harnesses that were not in compliance with NASA regulations, and they had to bring their belts into spec if they wanted to run on the track. NASA required 2 years on SFI belts, and 5 years on FIA belts, as long as you are in compliance with the group you run with there should be no problem.
Beth - the tickets were issued for speeding and the people were stopped going out on the track because of NJ state laws, not NASA safety rules --- the NASA guys were just as exasperated as everyone else...... whereas CDOC seemed perfectly happy!
Best option is to call the track and ask.....
- TwentySix - 11-04-2009
This is a reply from Joe Volpe, Director of NJMP on Rennlist:
Please report the facts
First, I would like to thank one of our Drivers Club Members (you know who you are) for bringing this to my attention and giving us the opportunity to clarify exactly what happened.
1. All race tracks in the State of New Jersey are required to comply with Motor Vehicle Race Track Regulations - Chapter 62. If you would like to read more about these regulations, here is a direct link..... http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf...egulations.pdf
This includes ovals, road courses, karting, dragstrips, and motocross.
2. There were NO tickets issued to anyone. The officer who has NJMP as one of his assigned facilities was simply here performing routine inspections on vehicles that must be in compliance with Chapter 62. If a vehicle is not in compliance, the car owner simply has to rectify the problem or does not go on track. NJMP works with the State Police to ensure that YOU all have the safest possible facility in which to hold your events. Lives are being saved thanks to their persistance, and we value their involvement and interest.
3. There is a speed limit in our paddock. However, it is rarely enforced unless someone is driving at dangerous speeds through the paddock. Still, NO tickets are issued.
Again, we work closely with the State Police to ensure the safety of all participants because we care about you. If you have comments or concerns about the validity of any actions taken at the track, please contact me directly at jvolpe@njmp.com. We believe NJMP is one of the safest facilities in the country and hope you all return to enjoy it! Ultimately, you are the end user of this facility and the most important part of the equation.
![[Image: nono.gif]](http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/graemlins/nono.gif)
This is a perfect example of the truth being told more than once, and is the beginning of one of the posts on this thread......"As I heard it, it had something to do with FIA approving belts for 5 years, and the........."
"As I heard it" is not how it happened. Please be thoughtful of what you repeat!
- Darren - 11-04-2009
The mis-information came at the event at the driver's meeting where the NASA Northeast Director, Joe Casella, said that the cop gave out tickets. That never actually happened.
The cop at the event also mis-read the regulations and was reading the rules for OVAL TRACK RACING not ROAD RACING, which is a different part of the regulation.
NASA rules had no bearing on this. All racing organizations copy the SCCA rules anyway for this stuff. Nothing has changed, business as usual.
- STEVEMCMORN - 11-04-2009
Darren wrote:
Quote:The mis-information came at the event at the driver's meeting where the NASA Northeast Director, Joe Casella, said that the cop gave out tickets. That never actually happened.
The cop at the event also mis-read the regulations and was reading the rules for OVAL TRACK RACING not ROAD RACING, which is a different part of the regulation.
Well, what can i say? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong .... but if you can't believe the guy leading the drivers meeting and the cop standing next to him with a gun + the 4 guys who were begging, borrowing, stealing ... and going to CDOC to buy new belts .... then who can you believe??