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+--- Thread: stock performance at the track (/showthread.php?tid=2014)
- NOGO65 - 11-13-2009
The concerns arising from running something like the R8 are maintenance costs, parts, safety gear/seats (no readily avail stuff here), insurance, and god forbid the increasing risk of damaging or balling up an expensive car.
Tell me about it. Just made a service appointment for next week at Nissan for oil and transmission fluid changes. I expect it to suck out about $1700 out of my pocket.
- emayer - 11-13-2009
NOGO65 wrote:
Quote:Funny you asked about lap times at Pocono.Very true. There's something pretty cool about running a car on track all day and being able to drive right on home when things are done. Of course this assumes nothing untoward happens along the way! I had to drive home from Watkins last time with no brakes left......
Steve was running consistantly 1:00 flat in the GT-R with me as the passenger (I'm 235lbs) and Im sure if he was totally honest, he was leaving some on the table because it's not his car to beat on. I timed him last weekend @ Thunderbolt running 1:35 and change.
What impresses me the most about the GT-R (and Eric, Im sure you feel similiar about the R8) is that the only thing I have to "modify" to get it track ready is slap some numbers on the side. When the weekend is done, I pack up and drive the thing home.
- bobt993 - 11-13-2009
Interesting how a GTR stays at a minute at Pocono, but the pace slows a little at Tbolt. I ran a stock 997 around Tbolt at about 1:35 pace, so I would have expected the GTR to be a little faster (it is heavy though). My 993 with an old engine on board ran 1:30 prepping for a race 2 weeks ago. Tbolt requires more car setup than Pocono North ( 2 long straights connected by a couple of turns).
Eric, I would suggest an already prepped track car rather than starting new on your own. You will save sooo much money and time sorting the car. If you talk to a dozen veteran racers/DE drivers you will find nearly everyone would agree. The stable to pick from would be: 996/997 fully sorted, 964, and 993. The 996 is less expensive to maintain, but also requires more maintenance than the old air-cooled cars. Working on the 996/997 is a little more difficult, but I am already starting to do all my own service work on my street 997. The newers cars are easier to drive fast. At the limit they are all a little challenging, but the olders cars become a handful sooner.
- betegh9 - 11-13-2009
It is amazing to see how the newer cars drive so fast, so easily. I just don't know how much FUN and SATISFACTION one gets from a car that drives itself at ANY speed. I have driven many cars on the track, and really, the ones that make me work and concentrate are the most satisfying. Some of you may know that I drive a 40 year old 911 somewhat modified and well sorted. It is a handfull and I wouldn't trade it for anything..... at this point. I drive to the event, track the car vigorously (it loves to be driven hard but not abused) and drive it home after the weekend. Brake pads last me a season as well as the Toyo R888's. The last set of tires, I logged 17 track days, 4 to 5 sessions each as well as traveling to and from the events. I know I am not the fastest out there, but I have a TON of fun for a reasonable cost. The best is knowing that I achieved the speeds and lap times without any aid.
SPEED COSTS MONEY...................and "SPEED KILLS"
- NOGO65 - 11-13-2009
bobt993 wrote:
Quote:Interesting how a GTR stays at a minute at Pocono, but the pace slows a little at Tbolt. I ran a stock 997 around Tbolt at about 1:35 pace,The GT-R's "girth" doesn't like the octopus at all. That's were alot of speed is lost trying to get the damn thing to turn. Also, there were alot of people on the track @ Thunderbolt that day.
- betegh9 - 11-13-2009
NOGO65 wrote:
Quote:bobt993 wrote:Quote:Interesting how a GTR stays at a minute at Pocono, but the pace slows a little at Tbolt. I ran a stock 997 around Tbolt at about 1:35 pace,The GT-R's "girth" doesn't like the octopus at all. That's were alot of speed is lost trying to get the damn thing to turn. Also, there were alot of people on the track @ Thunderbolt that day.
You are driving the WRONG line thru there!
:dude:
- NOGO65 - 11-13-2009
betegh9 wrote:
Quote:It is amazing to see how the newer cars drive so fast, so easily. I just don't know how much FUN and SATISFACTION one gets from a car that drives itself at ANY speed. The best is knowing that I achieved the speeds and lap times without any aid.
I figured it would come out at some point. LOL! I realise I dont wear an instructor's cap but believe it or not, I have yet to get in the car, strap down and have the GT-R take me around the track all by itself. There still is quite a bit of human imput needed to get around both quickly and safely.
Does it make the enjoyment less fun or satisfying because I dont have to worry about heel n toe or because I have stabilty management? Uh, Nope.
I for one, embrace technology that allows us to achieve both speed and safety. Just difference in opinion I guess.
- NOGO65 - 11-13-2009
betegh9 wrote:
Quote:NOGO65 wrote:No doubt for me. Also, major understeer do to the weight of the car pushing it forward. Steve has recently introduced me to trail braking to get the thing to rotate better. Of course now that the season is over, I won't be able to practice until spring.
Quote:bobt993 wrote:Quote:Interesting how a GTR stays at a minute at Pocono, but the pace slows a little at Tbolt. I ran a stock 997 around Tbolt at about 1:35 pace,The GT-R's "girth" doesn't like the octopus at all. That's were alot of speed is lost trying to get the damn thing to turn. Also, there were alot of people on the track @ Thunderbolt that day.
You are driving the WRONG line thru there!
- michael lang - 11-14-2009
I'm going to agree with Nick on this and I am by no means trying to start any s*%t. There is nothing more frustrating than working my ass off and driving as hard as I can to reel in a big motor car going into T5 at Summit, loose all my momentum only to have them pull on me like a banshee coming out of T9 and not get close enough again until T3. The same thing happens at Shenandoah, I'll be able to hang with a big motor car all the way around the track but coming out of Big Bend or climbing the Bridge Straight they just pull on me. I guess my point is that there are a few big motor cars in the lower run groups where the drivers rely way too much on the right foot in order to go fast. So I don't necessarily know if this person (could be anybody in general, Porsche or any car)that is constantly being caught up to by a smaller engine car will be able to handle the speed in which they are driving if something bad were to happen. I didn't think it happened that much until I was at a Mercedes Benz Club DE, there was a wide variety of all type of cars there and I watched as the train grew & grew starting with an E63. Again, I am by no means trying to start any s^$t nor am I am implying that there are bad drivers in the club. Truth be told, I have never felt more welcomed at RTR events than any other event I gone to.
- emayer - 11-14-2009
Absolutely valid thoughts. Bottom line is that this relates to driver rather than vehicle ability. No question, if you're catching up to those with higher HP cars than you're doing something right and deserve the courtesy of a point-by.
For those driving newer cars, it is dependent on us to be cognizant of what the car (and nannies) are telling us about our driving. I had concerns starting out with the 997TT that it would inhibit my development. In retrospect, I feel I gained a ton of knowledge especially the importance of smooth inputs with so much power on tap. This has translated well to other vehicles.
Driving in the cold and rain at Thunderbolt drove this point even further. If ABS or ESP triggers, I know I've overstepped the bounds somehow. If you look at those systems as a safety net and a warning that you need to take corrective action, you can learn alot and safely experiment with the car's limit. Driver's that ignore this type of feedback may be limiting their learning experience and overall safety.