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+--- Thread: Braking Points (/showthread.php?tid=2103)
- larrybard - 02-14-2010
One of the things I have been focusing on is braking at a consistent, optimal point at each turn, but particularly at the end of fast approaches. (Bless you, Porterfields.) Let's assume that we're nearing the end of a long straightaway with some sort of clearly defined braking markers, e.g., fixed posted signs for "4," "3," "2" and "1." (I'll try not to digress about turning cones -- don't ask me what I generally think about those driving crutches, the DE equivalents of painting by the numbers.)
So let's say the tires and and pads are up to temperature, and you decide that this lap you want to initiate braking "at" the "3" sign. What does that really mean, in practice? You're flying down at 100+ MPH, right hand turn fast approaching; not the time to turn your head 90 degrees to the left to check when the braking marker is directly alongside. Never turn your head the slightest bit, and use peripheral vision? Best estimate, using peripheral vision, as marker disappears past left pillar, while all the time concentrating on the road ahead?
Thanks,
Larry
- bobt993 - 02-14-2010
Larry, references are good indicators or where you are on the track, but one way to look to using a braking references is when to stop braking not where to start. Same scenario would be to look towards the corner ( the direction you want to go) as you begin slowing the car. References coming down the front straight are for preparation, but your eyes are past that when you start your braking. There is not enough time to look out or to the side. Look forward into the turn.
When I started racing the idea of references is completely gone. You are stuck to someones bumper and cannot see crap or your being chased and your mirrors are busy. This is why learning to be a turn ahead is important. One advancement I made last year was having my car setup by a Pro and working with him to learn the techniques that make the Pros that much faster. This made braking a bigger challenge because your entrance speed to the apex is nearly equal to your track out speed. The only way to get good at this is seeing the braking zone as a path to the apex not a straight line, but an arc that begins with very brief straight line braking, but bends to the apex as you release. Since every turn is somewhat different, the technique follows the line to the apex. Just visualizing this makes one aware of the mistake made by braking the same way in every turn. When you get really good at this you miss the apex at times because of the commitment to fast entry.
- michael lang - 02-15-2010
Larry if your goal is to brake later and you are looking for new reference points, then going to YouTube or Vimeo works very well for that, just stopping the video at various points and looking at everything on/around the track. If your goal is to increase your turning speed, I would use my same reference points only difference being that I would apply less pressure on the brake pedal. If you don't feel comfortable with that at first by yourself, go out with an instructor in his car so your eyes will acclamate to the increased speed. That way you don't have to think about anything, focus on anything, or do anything except sit there and be a passenger with your eyes forward getting used to how quickly things are happening. I know for a fact that this helps to increase turning speed. I used it on Summit Main to increase my T1 speed. By the end of the weekend my T1 speed was up 6mph. What ever your goal is, best of luck.
- Brian Minkin - 02-15-2010
Keep in mind that with increased corner entry speed comes increased exit speed and therefore more speed on the straight until the next turn. (throttle wide open until the next turn) As you carry more speed into each turn the braking points will change. If you keep them the same you will get into ABS in the case of your car Larry or on a non ABS car lock the brakes. Promise your lap times will drop with proper braking.
I went from a 1:37 2 years ago at Sebring to 1:34 2 weeks ago and faster corner entry was the main reason. I did have to maintain the speed deeper into the corners to accomplish this. I also had to change reference points to keep from getting into the ABS.
- bobt993 - 02-16-2010
Larry,
I think to better focus on your question. Consistency. Using references to prepare for braking will certainly help. When you find one that does not move just start your preparation prior and get your eyes if and into the corner. You won't need to rely on peripheral vision because you have determined your action before the marker say .5 secs or 3 car lengths. BTW late braking does not make up the big difference on lap times it is faster entry or less braking that makes the bigger difference. Faster entry does always mean faster exit speeds. Sometimes it does but, the type of corner and other complications may make faster entry yield a slower exit with still a faster lap. I would suggest getting a Data system as this will tell you the truth about your results. You can purchase one pretty cheap these days. Self-teaching needs objective data to back up suspicions. Just because it feels fast does not mean it was/is. Some guys never get this and avoid the reality that a data logger gives them when they are certain of their results. The benefits are big and the sobering to where to improve and refine your driving skills.
- JoeP - 02-16-2010
Larry, it seems that we are wrestling with the same issue. Last year, I tried to adjust braking points, but my results later in the turn could get uncomfortable at times. In October at Thunderbolt, I tried a HUD speedometer that allowed me to focus more on the other end of the braking zone - the speed at Turn-In. I still picked a braking point, but the HUD allowed me to better measure the result I was looking for. More importantly (at least to me), once I found a safe, fast speed for the conditions in a certain corner, I never got into trouble later in the turn. Once entry speed got to a certain point, one or two MPH made a huge difference later in the turn, especially in the rain.
I could never get the same results with the OEM speedo. Having 1" numbers at the bottom of the windshield kept my eyes outside of the car instead of on the dash. I might ditch this training aid one day, but it makes a big difference while I'm still learning the ropes.
- KennyB - 02-17-2010
As we get better at this, we can start to transition to trail braking, as Bob describes. I have a feeling this is tricky to do well, but it is a skill that can be mastered. I think it's true that late/more vigorous braking will only go so far in dropping lap times. Higher entry speeds is the trick. Like most other advanced techniques, this one will require some good teaching (for me at least) and lots of practice.
PS-data logger on wish list, along with...chase cam, track wheels, trailer, tow vehicle, etc. etc.
- scwaters - 02-18-2010
+1 on the Data Recorder, got the camea last season and pick up my first trailer next week.