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+--- Thread: GT3 VS Z06 (/showthread.php?tid=214)
- catchacab - 01-12-2007
Tony356993 wrote:
Quote:Quote:They shouldn't be moved up in class based on pace alone. Driving technique and safety is paramount.
i agree! this is my instructing philosophy. i have to convince many folks that speed is not enough. on the other hand, a technically perfect line and track aware driver that is slow should not be moved up either.
Tony,
What about a great driver in a 914-4? Do you keep him in blue because his car isn't fast on the straights, but catches them in the corners? Do you let him run solo in blue from the beginning of the event?
Stentech1,
My reply is coming, have to take my daughter to school. But here is the gist of it: If students get used to having the electronic aids assisting them, then they can develop bad habits.
I hear one can drive those turbos with thier eyes closed and pass everyone in red(just kidding). This tread is getting good!
- Larry Herman - 01-12-2007
catchacab wrote:
Quote:Tony,If that driver is doing well, and driving the car properly, with good techniques and good vision, then they would progress to White. It is unfortunate that HP and PSM allows poor drivers to run reasonable (not quick) lap times. It is up to an aware instructor corps to separate the car from the driver, and make their decisions based purely upon ability. The general driver pool, however, is not able to make that distinction, and so you hear the cry "I'm passing everybody, why aren't I moving up?"
What about a great driver in a 914-4? Do you keep him in blue because his car isn't fast on the straights, but catches them in the corners? Do you let him run solo in blue from the beginning of the event?
- catchacab - 01-12-2007
stentech1 wrote:
Quote:I am not sure what I like most about the Z06 the radio from the Suburban or the steering wheel from the Malibu. Now I remember the body panels are great to use for sledding, but lack the quality of the sleds sold at Wall Mart. The other great thing is that the brakes on the car don't work well for track applications but they would make a worthy brake upgrade for a Colbolt SS or a Venture minivan.
The brakes are ok, just need to upgrade the pads. The weak spot for the Z06 (C5), was the transmission over heating.
Have you driven one on the track?
- Wally - 01-12-2007
No! He just buys them and parks them in his garage.
Agreed, good pads, installation of a trans cooler and a realignment
will keep the car competitive, among other adjustments.
- Racingswh - 01-12-2007
Wally wrote:
Quote:No! He just buys them and parks them in his garage.
I heard from a pretty reliable source that he's actually afraid of his car and that's why he hardly drives it. lol!!
It makes just over 200 MORE crank HP than a Porsche Carrera GT.
- Larry Herman - 01-12-2007
Racingswh wrote:
Quote:I heard from a pretty reliable source that he's actually afraid of his car and that's why he hardly drives it. lol!!Actually I heard it from a guaranteed reliable source...Steve!
![[Image: roflmao.gif]](http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/graemlins/roflmao.gif)
- catchacab - 01-12-2007
Electronics do not make the driver fast. They do make him faster than he would be without them. We are not talking about a driver getting around well, but rather a driver getting around. A driver with these aids can get around, while without these aids, he might not make it (I am not writing about all drivers with PSM, many drivers that have PSM drive quite well). I don’t look down on those who drive the newer cars, drive what you bring. Bad habits that one can develop that can be to a limited degree corrected by PSM would be lifting in some corners, applying too much throttle, and going in a little too hot into a corner. The electronic nannies help avoid disaster here. As the student’s speed picks up, and when 175lbs of ballast is lost, there are times when the nannies can’t reign in the spoiled child. As a driver who does not use these aids on the track, I don’t feel I am a better driver than one who uses them, but I feel I am getting a better education about driving.
When we drive on the road, there are times we may need to suddenly lift or brake in a turn, here we are generally not driving our cars at their limits, but our nannies snatch us up and save us.
The only way to see how PSM may allow a driver to go faster on the track is to take two identical cars, with the exception of one having PSM, while the other does not (Car 1 and 2). Let drivers A and B drive each one and see what happens as far as lap times etc.
I conclude for me, at this time PSM is for the street.
If I am a magician, I want to be that magician that is getting the attractive women!
- stentech1 - 01-12-2007
We have a member in RTR club that tried every pad possible (c6 zo6)But eventually put a stop tech kit on the car. No matter what pad / fliud combo he ran they did not work properly for an entire session. The c5 zo6 brakes don't seem to be as much of a problembut the cars are also not as fast. As for driving a vet yes I have driven them and own one that makes 693 rwhp. I find it entertaining to hit bumps in the car and see how many different directions the hood fenders and dash go at the same time.
These cars are the best bang for the buck if you look at the numbers but I would rather buy a car that has true driver feed back and a build the quality level of a Porsche. My Vett does not communicate from a sensory standpoint like the 911s and I feel would make it difficult more difficult to drive.
- ccm911 - 01-12-2007
Larry Herman wrote:
Quote:If that driver is doing well, and driving the car properly, with good techniques and good vision, then they would progress to White. It is unfortunate that HP and PSM allows poor drivers to run reasonable (not quick) lap times. It is up to an aware instructor corps to separate the car from the driver, and make their decisions based purely upon ability. The general driver pool, however, is not able to make that distinction, and so you hear the cry "I'm passing everybody, why aren't I moving up?"This is why Larry is a responsible instructor. I would trust his judgement any day.
- catchacab - 01-12-2007
stentech1 wrote:
Quote:We have a member in RTR club that tried every pad possible (c6 zo6)But eventually put a stop tech kit on the car. No matter what pad / fliud combo he ran they did not work properly for an entire session. The c5 zo6 brakes don't seem to be as much of a problembut the cars are also not as fast. As for driving a vet yes I have driven them and own one that makes 693 rwhp. I find it entertaining to hit bumps in the car and see how many different directions the hood fenders and dash go at the same time.
These cars are the best bang for the buck if you look at the numbers but I would rather buy a car that has true driver feed back and a build the quality level of a Porsche. My Vett does not communicate from a sensory standpoint like the 911s and I feel would make it difficult more difficult to drive.
I agree with you. Most Vette owner would rather cruise the Blvd., than go to the track (and that include Z06 owners). GM looks to the Vette as a halo car that turns a nice profit. To improve the Vette's track ability, and build quality would drive up its price, and take it out of the hands of those who made it an icon. Most Vette owners are more concerned about 0-60, than feedback, or handling.
Most Porsche owners would rather cruise the Blvd, than go the track. However, Porsche appeals to a different demographic. As a percentage there are more Porsche owners who participate in High Performance Driving, be it AX, DE, or racing. Porsche is a more popular manufacturer (based on new car sales) than it has ever been. 911 cabs far outsell coupes, and the popularity of tiptronic is increasing.
I appreciate both cars for what they are, similar in some ways, but different in others.