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+--- Thread: additional debate over health care reform (/showthread.php?tid=2206)
- AMoore - 03-26-2010
We have been hearing how the Dems will get wiped out in November because of their passage of the new health care legislation. Putnits have been citing polls which purport to demonstrate that most Americans are against the reform. Newt Gingrich declared in an e-mail blast Wednesday -- titled "This Will Not Stand" -- "in every recent poll, the vast majority of Americans opposed this monstrosity."
The top line of the March 19-21 CNN/Opinion Research poll showed that by 59 percent to 39 percent, voters opposed the bill that the House was about to vote on. Looks good for the GOP right?
But when asked why, 13 percent of those opposed said the bill was "not liberal enough." Add them to the 39 percent in favor, and the balance came out 52 percent in support and 43 percent against, just about President Barack Obama's margin of victory in 2008.
I do believe, however, that the republicans will be highly motivated in November and turnout for them will be high; while it will be very difficult for the democrats to muster the type of turnout generated in 2008.
- emayer - 03-26-2010
Minor correction but your calculation works out to 46% against. With more than 50% of the population currently paying less (or any) in taxes than they receive in gov't assistance, why would they refute another entitlement? Nothing is going to change significantly until the money finally runs out. One has to give the Obama administration credit for the fact that the true impact and cost of this legislation will not be felt until he's long out of office.
I agree that the Dems hit this November will be less than a total blowout. It will matter primarily on those races that are close, as voter sentiment and motivation by the Tea Party and Repubs will be factors working against incumbents. Then again, there were quite a few surprises during the last election cycle....
As an aside, I saw more evidence of stimulus money hard at work this morning. Someone must have felt that the guard rails on our rural road weren't visible enough so the entire street has had reflectors placed on top literally 5 feet apart for a length of several miles. Looks like a Christmas tree at night! Perhaps there is a sale on reflectors or a political favor was owed. I feel so much safer now. I wonder how many jobs were saved?
- AMoore - 03-26-2010
Not sure of the safety impact on the new reflectors. I think there are plenty of other recipients of stimulus money worthy of attacking. Many gave rise to exactly zero jobs, and served little to no purpose. Whether you are a dem or a rep, there is no dispute that pork is a major problem. Again, another reason why we should have term limits.
- nplenzick - 03-26-2010
AMoore wrote:
Quote:We have been hearing how the Dems will get wiped out in November because of their passage of the new health care legislation. Putnits have been citing polls which purport to demonstrate that most Americans are against the reform. Newt Gingrich declared in an e-mail blast Wednesday -- titled "This Will Not Stand" -- "in every recent poll, the vast majority of Americans opposed this monstrosity."The Dems won't be hit as hard as the Reps like to think they will. The stock market will continue to increase, unemployment should be at least 1 - 2 % down from what it is right now, and the independent and the moderates of both parties will realize that the "sky is falling mentality" that some extreme right wingers are preaching never materializes. Now add that the Reps have come out this week ( Mr. McCain) and have said that they will not work with the Obama administration on anything and I would say that the Dems might actually do pretty well, certainly well enough to maintain control of the congress.
The top line of the March 19-21 CNN/Opinion Research poll showed that by 59 percent to 39 percent, voters opposed the bill that the House was about to vote on. Looks good for the GOP right?
But when asked why, 13 percent of those opposed said the bill was "not liberal enough." Add them to the 39 percent in favor, and the balance came out 52 percent in support and 43 percent against, just about President Barack Obama's margin of victory in 2008.
I do believe, however, that the republicans will be highly motivated in November and turnout for them will be high; while it will be very difficult for the democrats to muster the type of turnout generated in 2008.
The Republican party has one large flaw. They have aligned themselves with an extreme right wing philosophy, with no room for a more moderate point of view. Even our local national media republican Michael Smerconish has left his party because there's no room for a moderate view. It's the same reason I left in 2000. It's really the moderate independents that will decide the election in the fall and they'll have more in common with the moderate Dems then they will Right wing reps.
The "Tea Party movement" is nothing more then a joke at best. Just a quick check of their website show a poultry 90,932 people signing there petition to reject the health care plan. Now 91K people would be a lot if we were talking about one of the counties surrounding Philly or maybe a fair amount if we were talking a State, but a "national movement"? Laughable at best! Oh, their core values sound good, fiscal responsibility, constitutional limited government, free markets. However they offer nothing on how to achieve any of it. Perfect example of Monday morning quarter backing at best.
- nplenzick - 03-26-2010
emayer wrote:
Quote: I saw more evidence of stimulus money hard at work this morning. Someone must have felt that the guard rails on our rural road weren't visible enough so the entire street has had reflectors placed on top literally 5 feet apart for a length of several miles. Looks like a Christmas tree at night! Perhaps there is a sale on reflectors or a political favor was owed. I feel so much safer now. I wonder how many jobs were saved?
And the problem with reflectors on guardrails is what? By your own admission the guardrail is now highly visible at night, and that's a bad thing? Are you against the reflectors that are installed in the pavement too or just against reflectors on guardrails?
Seems like a good idea to me on how to make a dark road safer without adding the expense of overhead lighting.
- emayer - 03-26-2010
Nothing against reflectors at all. Matter of fact, I really prefer the post-system (Katzen Augen) used all over Europe. My problem that you may have missed is the fact that these are spaced so closely as to be obviously superfluous. The speed limit is 55 mph on this stretch of road, with the markers that close it is glaring to the point of being distracting while other sections of road without guardrail have no guidance at all. Lastly, the road isn't that curvy to begin with.
If one absolutely needs to blow money, could these not have been spaced out and used elsewhere? How about putting the stimulus money toward repaving roads which in many areas are a greater safety risk? Better yet, how about not borrowing from the Chinese or taking our hard earned money for excessive projects? I posted this as a glaring example (sorry for the pun!) of what's being wasted throughout the country. I'm appalled at the lack of common sense and restraint in such difficult times.
Glad to hear you've abandoned the party of supposed right wing extremists to join those on the left. The problem for the rest of us is that no one is truly representing the middle. By no means is the Tea Party the solution, but it would be prudent to take note of the movement and the fact that "registered" members likely vastly underestimates the number of Americans in favor of this philosophy and the concept of a third party.
- larrybard - 03-26-2010
emayer wrote:
Quote:If one absolutely needs to blow money, could these not have been spaced out and used elsewhere? How about putting the stimulus money toward repaving roads which in many areas are a greater safety risk? Better yet, how about not borrowing from the Chinese or taking our hard earned money for excessive projects? I posted this as a glaring example (sorry for the pun!) of what's being wasted throughout the country. I'm appalled at the lack of common sense and restraint in such difficult times.Reminds me of what Milton Friedman once said. Friedman visited China in the early 1960s and was taken by a government official to see a public works project. Chinese workers were building a canal. Friedman was struck by seeing everyone digging the canal with shovels. Friedman asked the official, "why no heavy earth-moving equipment?" The official said, "oh, this is a jobs program." So Friedman then says to the official, "then why don't you just give them spoons instead of shovels to create even more jobs?"
- nplenzick - 03-26-2010
emayer wrote:
Quote:Nothing against reflectors at all. Matter of fact, I really prefer the post-system (Katzen Augen) used all over Europe. My problem that you may have missed is the fact that these are spaced so closely as to be obviously superfluous. The speed limit is 55 mph on this stretch of road, with the markers that close it is glaring to the point of being distracting while other sections of road without guardrail have no guidance at all. Lastly, the road isn't that curvy to begin with.
If one absolutely needs to blow money, could these not have been spaced out and used elsewhere? How about putting the stimulus money toward repaving roads which in many areas are a greater safety risk? Better yet, how about not borrowing from the Chinese or taking our hard earned money for excessive projects? I posted this as a glaring example (sorry for the pun!) of what's being wasted throughout the country. I'm appalled at the lack of common sense and restraint in such difficult times.
Glad to hear you've abandoned the party of supposed right wing extremists to join those on the left. The problem for the rest of us is that no one is truly representing the middle. By no means is the Tea Party the solution, but it would be prudent to take note of the movement and the fact that "registered" members likely vastly underestimates the number of Americans in favor of this philosophy and the concept of a third party.
Have you made an effort to contact the local authorities as to why these reflectors were installed? Any accidents on that roadway? Any complaints? Or do you really believe this was a way for Penndot or your local authorities to blow you hard earned income? Personally I've never been distracted by reflectors of any kind. People driving with illegal lighting, out of adjustment headlights, or driving with their high beams on are far more distracting to me then reflectors. Oh, if you do make that call you do bring up a good point sounds like they need some on the other side of the road too.
Funny how you use this as a way to "show" the abuse of tax money. One only needs to only look at the defense budget to really see some serious abuses.
Maybe you mist the part that I left the republican party because they no longer represent the moderate point of view? So I guess that makes me a liberal right?
- ccm911 - 03-26-2010
nplenzick wrote:
Quote:Funny how you use this as a way to "show" the abuse of tax money. One only needs to only look at the defense budget to really see some serious abuses.Be careful, Nick, talk like that could get you branded as a Communist, Marxist, Socialist, or a Bleeding Heart.
Maybe you mist the part that I left the republican party because they no longer represent the moderate point of view? So I guess that makes me a liberal right?
Just check the other thread to see how these folks react to non-republicans.
I mean, really. How dare we be so brazen as to attempt to help those who really need it? Wouldn't that money be much better spent on tax cuts? Because, as we have all seen in the past thirty years, trickle-down economcs has really worked to promote the greater good.
And as for the 90 thousand Tea Party jokers...what can you say? Truly a group of intellectuals. Perhaps if I move my lips as I read their literature, I may be able to stumble through the bigger words.
"I can see Russia from my house"......
- ccm911 - 03-26-2010
emayer wrote:
Quote:Nothing against reflectors at all. Matter of fact, I really prefer the post-system (Katzen Augen) used all over Europe.And another quote refering to how vastly superior Europe is.
But you contnue to live here in America?