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- michael lang - 11-24-2010

Just a couple of weeks ago I went out for my last DE of the season with Potomac, and for some reason they had put me into the White Group eventhough they knew that I was a Blue Group student. I was told that they wanted to see how I would perform. I feel like I did a pretty good job and the instructors that rode with me were confirming that by saying that I was definitely in the correct run group based on my skill level. I was having some problems getting past some mental barriers with being so far out of my comfort zone trying to keep pace with the much faster drivers than myself that I would intermittently miss my various reference points on the track because I was driving faster than I was used to. As the weekend passed, my eyes had acclamated to the higher speed and my driving improved but I was still having some problems with it. Here's my question:

What types of things do you do while your  on track to slow things down in your mind so that your eyes will adjust to faster speeds than what you are used to?


- emayer - 11-24-2010

I think you're experiencing what most of us feel when transitioning from blue to white and a reasonable level of concern and caution is healthy.

I'm no expert unlike many of the gurus here, but the one piece of advice I can give is to look as far down the track as possible.  It is amazing how this will make you feel more at ease, faster, and a smoother driver.  This allows for a more predictive approach to driving rather than reactive.  The other trick I try off track is to mentally run the course thinking about "what if" scenarios at different areas.  I'm not sure it'll translate to a set response in real-time but is a fun exercise especially when attending a boring meeting!  Big Grin

Happy Thanksgiving and thanks for a great season RTR!

Looking forward to next year.....


- betegh9 - 11-24-2010

michael lang wrote:
Quote:Just a couple of weeks ago I went out for my last DE of the season with Potomac, and for some reason they had put me into the White Group eventhough they knew that I was a Blue Group student. I was told that they wanted to see how I would perform. I feel like I did a pretty good job and the instructors that rode with me were confirming that by saying that I was definitely in the correct run group based on my skill level. I was having some problems getting past some mental barriers with being so far out of my comfort zone trying to keep pace with the much faster drivers than myself that I would intermittently miss my various reference points on the track because I was driving faster than I was used to. As the weekend passed, my eyes had acclamated to the higher speed and my driving improved but I was still having some problems with it. Here's my question:

What types of things do you do while your on track to slow things down in your mind so that your eyes will adjust to faster speeds than what you are used to?
When I go around the corner tooooo fast, I just close my eyes, grunt a few 4 letter words, the open my eyes at track out. Confusedhock:Big Grin

Really, the more track days you have, most of the motor skills will become second nature or go to your subconcious. This is when you do certain skills without having to think about it. Now that your mind does not have to think about all those things that your classroom instructor drilled in, you can now concentrate on other things without overload. Just remember that SPEED does not come by wanting and focusing on being faster than your buddy or the other guy on the track, it comes from concentrating on your OWN PERFORMANCE.



- Tony356993 - 11-24-2010

Yo Mike,
The processing of all information (including speed) is something that you will improve upon with each event. Keep looking far down the track and begin ignoring the cones. While cones are an important part for beginners they become a crutch for blue and white. If you are looking at any of the cones during turn in or apex your eyes in in the wrong place. In other words, when you turn in you eyes should be looking thru the apex of corner toward track out. When you have as many days at sp that you have just drive the track instinctually. Don't think too much - just drive. You have an innate driving skill that you can harness with increasing your your vision and keeping confident. You are getting all you can out of that car but you can continue to improve each session. If you get a chance, get some rides in some higher hp track cars. This will help your eyes process the speed and ingrain the images and rate of change of speed into your brain. You know how I feel about visualizing the track and hitting your marks every lap and it all will come together. You have the skill, maturity and dedication to become a very good driver and instructor. Remember - ignore the stink in cones!!







michael lang wrote:
Quote:Just a couple of weeks ago I went out for my last DE of the season with Potomac, and for some reason they had put me into the White Group eventhough they knew that I was a Blue Group student. I was told that they wanted to see how I would perform. I feel like I did a pretty good job and the instructors that rode with me were confirming that by saying that I was definitely in the correct run group based on my skill level. I was having some problems getting past some mental barriers with being so far out of my comfort zone trying to keep pace with the much faster drivers than myself that I would intermittently miss my various reference points on the track because I was driving faster than I was used to. As the weekend passed, my eyes had acclamated to the higher speed and my driving improved but I was still having some problems with it. Here's my question:

What types of things do you do while your on track to slow things down in your mind so that your eyes will adjust to faster speeds than what you are used to?


- Darren - 11-24-2010

emayer wrote:
Quote:I'm no expert unlike many of the gurus here, but the one piece of advice I can give is to look as far down the track as possible.
Yah! What he said! Stuff happens way too fast 5 feet in front of the car. I don't look there, too scary! Chances are you have a habit of not looking down the track far enough.

The more seat time you get the smaller your errors become and the more you are in tune with your corner entry speed. The most challenging thing (I think) in instructing blue students is that often they don't realize that they might enter a turn 10-15 mph faster than they ever have! An instructor might say "you're ok, just realize you are going 15 mph faster than you normally are here, brake early"

In the instructor group its more like a 1-2 mph variation in a turn from lap to lap.

As far as the relative speed between regions -- our groups are relatively fast. Even within RTR the top half of blue and the entire white group are not that different in speed. It's still a huge hurdle in terms of run group promotion because once you are in white you may never see an instructor again. Also most white and black drivers never ask for instructors to ride with them, which I think is a waste of available free resources.


- Darren - 11-24-2010

michael lang wrote:
Quote:and for some reason they had put me into the White Group even though they knew that I was a Blue Group student
Not for "some reason", because you're an RTR guy!


- michael lang - 11-25-2010

I did really well I think. It was just coming to grips with the higher speeds and getting my eyes to adjust to things happening so much faster. I couldn't tell you how much faster in terms of mph but I could feel it and I could see it happening. There were times during certain laps when there were no other cars that I would experiment with different things where I just committed to it and I would come out of it with no incident and it just raised my confidence level. So from that point on, every time through that section of the track, it felt as though I was going faster than I ever had before. It was such a rush! I guess the trick of getting your eyes to acclaimate to things happening much faster is not really one set answer, it's a combination of a bunch of little pieces that when combined make the whole puzzle come together.

Another thing I noticed is that the Potomac guys liked to pass very late in the passing zone so many times when I would give the pass to the faster car he would pass just about at turn in. It didn't really rattle me but I felt as though it was great training because it forced me to look through that car as if it didn't exist and it made me want to reel that guy in at track out. Eventhough my car didn't have the hp to keep up on the straight I know he knew I was right there. So from a training stand point of momentum maintenance, that was a great experience.

All in all, I think that event was very successful in getting a taste of what being in the more experienced run group was going to be like. I feel fortunate to have had the training that I have because without it I would be way over my head.


- dmano - 11-25-2010

I learned a long time ago when racing bikes with Barry that the key to being fast and calm is to be very "smooth" with all your reactions. Look far ahead of the next corner because if you focus on the corner you are coming up to it is too late. 

- JoeP - 11-25-2010

Michael, at the risk of getting all Buddhist on your ass, I'm passing along guidance I received from an Instructor a few years ago.

He said not to look at anything while on Track.  He said to look at EVERYTHING.  The best pilots/racers do not move their eyes ten times faster than we mortals.  They train themselves to absorb everything at once and "feel" the entire situation that surrounds them.  It is next level after lifting your eyes to look further down track.  In my experience, this also requires me to empty my thoughts like Buddhist meditation or something.  My brain can't think "down track" if the little voice in my head is saying, "Don't miss the apex cone."  (I think I've succeeded for about 30 seconds in five years of DE events.)  The Instructor sent me to the following website to illustrate his point:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~pontipak/redsquare.html

You cannot do well if you focus on the red square.  You need to empty your brain and look at the entire screen at the same time.

It seems that the old Atari game, "Missile Command", would be perfect for Winter DE training.  It was impossible to do well if you focused on one missile.  You needed to play the entire screen at the same time.  That being said, does anyone know of a bar that still has "Missile Command"?  It might be time for an RTR Winter DE training session.


- bobt993 - 11-25-2010

Michael,

Congrats on moving forward with your comfort level.  A couple of observations:
Looking forward yes, but have a target that connects the car's intended direction.  There are couple types of references that I find myself using when just lapping or qualifying for a race. 

1.  Have a definitive brake marker for decell on a long straight.  It just does not change much even with perfect corner exit onto the straight.  Summit would be the patch of pavement that protrudes on the left side of the track.  That is absolutely the latest you want to brake it is down hill and you quickly run into bad grip.  Now from there you can brake less or trail softer into the turn. 

T4 has an orange dot on the left side of the track that works well for a soft early turn in with no brakes, but also consider looking into the corner for a line that starts opening to the inside of T5.  

2.  You can also brake down a corner into the two parts;  entry to the apex and track out where the wheel begins to open.  Tbolt has a couple such corners,  T6, T7, and T9 have a specific transition where throttle cures car stability.   Working on earlier WOT throttle in these corners makes a big difference in lap times.   

3.  The rest of a track such as Summit is entirely dependent on car balance vs track position.  Eg T5,6,7,8,9 are all about car balance and when to apply throttle, lift, or LFB.  Worry less about the apex and more about maintaining traction through transitions.  I teach from T6 to T9 to initiate turning when the car goes neutral.  Your track position is less critical, but turning while still loaded really upsets the car.