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+--- Thread: anti freeze alternative (/showthread.php?tid=2786)
- ninjabones - 04-14-2011
ccm911 wrote:
Quote:ninjabones wrote:Quote:Doesn't really answer the question... our concern isn't the environment, it's slippery stuff on the track. I'd like to see that addressed before people go out buying this stuff thinking that it's acceptable for road-racing and road course applications.Dr. Glen - The tried and true approach over the years has been to use straight water with some Redline Water-Wetter mxed in.
Thanks Chris... I wish that PCA or at least RTR would absolutely mandate no antifreeze at our events... as i have a 993, doesn't really apply to me. More concerned about the other guys spewing antifreeze on the track in front of me.
Just as an example... here's a video from VIR this weekend. Both drivers were lucky to escape with no major injuries. I had two incidents in DEs last season where I hit antifreeze on the track... one time resulted in a 360 spin entering the carusel at NJMP.... very very lucky I didn't run into anyone (or anything). In this VIR video, it was oil... but very easily could have been antifreeze.
http://vimeo.com/22306701
- dmano - 04-14-2011
I quess we should all just drain our fluids and run nothing to make the 993 guys happy. Or maybe the 993 guys could just have thier own events with none of the puking type cars there. Or we should all sell our cars and get horses, but then we would have shit to slip on the track. Damn I just can't win can I. Thats ok I will run my zero pressure system with 12lb of boost, high compression motor, run all day long at 185 deg with no Ethylene Glycol in the system and make 620HP.
Just trying to help the racer, can't make everyone happy, only some will see the light.
- ninjabones - 04-14-2011
dmano wrote:
Quote:I quess we should all just drain our fluids and run nothing to make the 993 guys happy. Or maybe the 993 guys could just have thier own events with none of the puking type cars there. Or we should all sell our cars and get horses, but then we would have shit to slip on the track. Damn I just can't win can I. Thats ok I will run my zero pressure system with 12lb of boost, high compression motor, run all day long at 185 deg with no Ethylene Glycol in the system and make 620HP.Let's try to debate the issue in a reasonable fashion. I'm really not trying to offend you or hurt your business. You can't eliminate all risk in motorsport, but you certainly can do things to reduce risk. I believe that people should run water in their radiators for DEs and Racing. There are other organizations that require this, so I'm not alone in my thinking. I welcome an open, honest, and reasonable discussion on this issue.
Just trying to help the racer, can't make everyone happy, only some will see the light.
- StoogeMoe203 - 04-14-2011
This discussion comes up all the time. I thought this forum had another thread on this topic, but I can't find it.
Here's one from Rennlist
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/334571-antifreeze-vs-water-at-des.html
- dmano - 04-14-2011
There is no debate for me as I can run more compression and higher boost all without Ethylene Glycol in my system. I used to run water but made much less HP, ran the chance of running hot and puking all over the track all from my system being under pressure. Like I said you can't please everyone. This would be of help to cars that have to cool their engines with some type fluid. The air cooled guys just need to make their engines not leak oil we have to do both. The real thing is to check your car over before every event to avoid any leaking issues. Preventative maintenance is the real key.
- Lainey - 04-14-2011
I guess the question is.... is the stuff "slippery" on track? Forget about boost, etc. My assumption is yes. Glen, what about people like me who may track my car but also drive on the street. Isn't there an issue with using water + wetter?
- ninjabones - 04-14-2011
No issue with water on the street... the issue is that water freezes. Using water in the radiator would require you to drain and replace with antifreeze in the winter. I understand that this would be impractical for some, and a mandatory ban on antifreeze might dissuade some newer drivers from participating in DE events. I can understand this argument against a mandatory ban in all run groups, but perhaps in the upper run groups where cars are less commonly serving double duty... and with drivers who already do quite a bit of work on their cars already (meaning that draining water and replacing with antifreeze wouldn't be such a deterrent).
- betegh9 - 04-17-2011
Not to throw another monkey into the mix, but those people with water cooled engines could stay free of anti-freeze if they program their car to start, warm up and shut off automatically when the coolant (water) temperature reached 32F. How about a small engine heater while the car sits in a cold garage..... In this computer age, anything is possible. There must be an APP for this, and if not, create one and sell it to Apple. I know that some of you are now saying: "he's full of it" OK!
I read in an old book about what used to be done in the old days before AF. ALCOHOL was used in some proportion with water to prevent freezing (maybe some of you chemists would like to comment..... like Alexey), and when spilled, it would evaporate faster than the water with no additional slipping. Back before there were highways, there was a race around the world, I forget what it was called, and I read that drivers drained their coolants when they stopped for rest or any other reason in cold climates. Filled the system back up when they got started.
The point here is that people with their enginuity figured out what to do to solve a problem, now, we can't even think outside the BOX.
I would be in favor of using water in run groups white and above since changing coolant is not such a hard job to tacke for the safety of your fellow drivers.....and yourself. If you are too lazy to do this, try the alcohol route.(Maybe if you use GRAIN alcohol, you can consume it if you get desperate.)
In the mean time, I am using air to cool my car, and if I spill some of it, please let me know.
- Phokaioglaukos - 04-19-2011
I would like to see sanctioning bodies for races require water only. For DE we should allow coolant.
- emayer - 04-20-2011
I've been watching the topic a bit since there is a growing number of incidents involving sudden coolant loss amongst 996/997 variants.
I agree with the compromise suggestion that lower run groups should be permitted antifreeze so as to not discourage participation and because speeds are lower. For the higher groups however, it makes sense to switch to water/ water wetter. Admittedly, I haven't switched yet either but will be doing so a bit later this season.