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+--- Thread: The Cost of The Iraqui war in Porsche Terms (/showthread.php?tid=331)
- smankow - 04-08-2007
frankly, I don't feel that there's anything improper in this thread. Plus, it's OFF-TOPIC
- Wellardmac - 04-08-2007
I don't either. It's only when insults start getting personal or the language needs toning down that the line gets crossed.
Healthy debate is good, even if we do not agree with what is said, that's why we have the 1st amendment.
..There's a line between expressing an opinion and going too far.
This comment
"If you disagree tell me where you live so I can send some of me friends that serve in the marine corps to your house so you can tell them how you feel."
This could be construed as threatening behavior by some and could be said as going too far.
Just food for thought.
- Wellardmac - 04-08-2007
Personally, I disagree with both Chris and Steve.
It's a complicated subject that has no clear-cut answers or solutions, hence the reason that it's unwise to get into a debate - it's just bait for the Alabama Redneck to come out and things then get ugly.
It took two to tango and get us into this mess. Unfortunately, I don't remember many at the time sitting there saying how none of it made sense.
History has been re-written so many times on this by both sides. What most do not remember was the actual events running up to the attack on Iraq. Take a look, all the evidence was there to be seen by those who cared to look. Arguing about it is only a mechanism to hide the embarassment of all the people (on both sides) who got it horribly wrong.
- catchacab - 04-08-2007
stentech wrote:
Quote:Let us not go in to the war and have a weapon detonated in the US. The last thing you retards will be thinking about is how many boxters it can buy. This country became a country because of war.(revolutionary)Weak liberal ,wimp, pussies, will due nothing to help. Take your your boxter count and stick them up your a-- We are the world power that will win with a no BS no compromise and a ass kicking mother like George W. as the captain of the ship. Terrorist fear him. He is what we need in times like this. If you disagree you are a terrorist supporter loser. making this great country look week.I say fu to all of you liberal morons. If you disagree tell me where you live so I can send some of me friends that serve in the marine corps to your house so you can tell them how you feel.The correct word is do
SM
You should use the word my here
- stentech - 04-08-2007
If you feel that marines coming to your house a threat than you must be devising the next terrorist plot. After all we are being protected by them right now. But they could tell you how receptive and thankful these in the middle east are for our efforts. As far as language I have heard worse on Sponge Bob. As far as a solution, We seemed to have one in WW2 and look at how good they behaved afterwards. Showering us with wonderful cars and motorcycles. But we were not a bunch of sissies then. The people who want to inflict harm on us love seeing videos of war protesters. United we are strong divided we are week. Any war effort we are in should be backed by our citizens unfortunately many don't realize how great this country is. Lets see how much it would cost if a major terrorist plot is executed in this country. I would be much more than our current war effort. If you disagree with the war the enemy thanks you. What is the point of a forum if true opinions cant be expressed. I love politics.
SM
- ccm911 - 04-09-2007
I find it interesting that you should get so emotional regarding a "war" which has absolutely nothing to do with the more important war on terrorism. Iraq were not the problem. The problem were the folks trying to kill us. The Taliban. Had we gone after some rogue nation in World War Two instead of Japan(who actually attaked us), and Germany(who were trying), we may have ultimtely lost.
Steve, you need to adjust your msguided notions of patriotism.
Folks died in World War Two just so idots like myself and others could remain free to spout our opinions in a public forum such as this without fear of reprisal. Or in your case, a bunch of Marines banging on our front doors.
- catchacab - 04-09-2007
The current situation in Iraq is quite complex.
We were right to remove Saddam from power 4yrs. ago. We should have done it back during Desert Storm. He was a dictator who did not comply with International Law. Combat operations were ended in Desert Storm because our military was decimating the Iraqi military. One military leader in the field described it as a Turkey Shoot with cannons. Due (and not do) to public relations our leaders ceased combat operations, they felt that if we continued, world opinion would turn against us, at the sight of the slaughter of the Iraqi military.
At first, we were welcomed by the Shiite's majority in Iraq, for freeing them of decades of persecution by Iraq's Sunni leaders. Unable to restore quality of life quickly back to the Iraqi people and with the new Iraqi Government being unable to protect and provide a quality of life to its citizens, all sects started to resent our presence.
Being bordered by two nations that support terrorists (one Sunni, one Shiite), provided a conduit of foreign combatants to destroy infrastructure improvements made by our country, attack to new Iraqi Government, and our Troops.
We are also resented not only by the Iraqi people but also many Muslim, Persian, and Arabs, for in their view occupying their land.
Do I feel that we are reducing the current risk of a terrorist event happening on our soil by being in Iraq? YES. but only because we are giving them a closer target to concentrate on. Long term, I feel we are causing more resentment and distrust by the people in that region that will result in more attacks against us on our soil.
Can we be successful in Iraq? Yes, but only with the full support of our people and the world. In the late 20th century, the media has become able to bring the graphic results of battle into our living rooms. Members of free societies that are not used to, and comfortable viewing true poverty, death, and destruction quickly drop their support for military actions, which undermines their leaders authority, leading to greater resistance by enemy combatants, in the hope that our freedom fighters will retreat.
How do we win? First thing that is needed is to remove all media from the battle zone. Allow the military to do its job, with out restrictions (except no nukes). We involved ourselves (with overwhelming public support) in Iraq, it is our duty to the Iraqi people to remain there until we return their country normalcy.
The extremists already want to destroy us. We need to appease the moderates and liberal factions(in and around the Middle East), so they don't become extremists.
If given the choice to invade Iraq, or take a new Boxster, what would I choose? As we close on April 15th, I would just like to see my taxes reduced by that amount. But, this is the cost of living in the Nation that is THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD.
Imagine having a disagreement with a member of your family. Would you or your family publicize it to the world. When we do this in regards to foreign and military policy, it weakens our position.
NOTE: This is an extreme oversimplification, with many problems and topics not being noted or addressed.
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, OUR LEADERS AND GOVERNMENT
- ccm911 - 04-09-2007
Eric, your final line made me shudder.
I am sorry I ever started this thread.
Some of these replies are just so very disturbing.
- Wally - 04-09-2007
Chris, What makes you shudder, the complexity or that we should support our troops, leaders or government. For better or worse we ARE the government. We elect our leaders (whether you voted for them or not) and our troops serve US by willing to stand on the wall to protect us. Unfortunately you look at the war for its monetary impact on us, not for the loss we have suffered by the deaths of the men and women serving us. I can still recite the letters that I had the ominous responsibility to write to the families of the men who died under my command. I will never lose the faith in those who serve our country, or our leaders whether I agree with them or not. I have faith that OUR government will correct itself if policies get out of control. I think Eric was on point with his comments, that the topic should be discussed (even on the Forum) so that all of us can better understand how these events impact us all. Don't apologize for starting this thread.
Paul
- catchacab - 04-09-2007
Chris,
There are too many lives at stake in this situation. The more we support our leaders and government, the better our troops will fare. (It pains me to agree with steve). Turmoil at home regarding this issue, benefits "the others".
There is nothing I would like to see more, than all of our troops home. While they are there they have my complete support. Many can all say, if I knew then what I know now, I would not have supported the deployment then. When you make a decision there are many times you have to see it through, you just can't abort. We all make mistakes, we need time to correct them and help the Iraqi people. Withdrawing now will leave that country in greater chaos than it is in now. Let them complete their mission.
Would Vietnam have turned out differently had the attitude at home been different?
United We Stand, Divided We Fall.
I agree, to disagree with you on this subject. No name calling here. We are friends.
Still eleven million Boxsters on our roads would be nice.
Now what do we do with Iran and North Korea which are even greater threats?
-Eric