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Thoughts for P4P 2014 - saucerman - 08-05-2013
This was our first event for PCFLV and despite the tons of smiles I saw in the parking lots/paddock areas things certainly didn't go as smooth as we hoped. So let's do a lesson learned while it's fresh in our heads in order to start preparing for next year.
I think the venue is great, with nice facilities (thanks to the Iron Pigs) and we should leave well enough alone in that area.
Maybe break up into 3 or 4 run groups instead of two - wait time diminishes, more smiles per run, per day
Gold ticket holders run in any group until their 6 runs are expired. Maybe even give them each 6 gold tickets to hand to the starter - that way if they have tickets they can run until they are out....save the timers having to check how many runs they have done.
Timing - do we want to try to get more gear for the timing or get the scca timing truck (that does come with a ton of goodies like the big timing display and everything is computerized).
We shouldn't have the finish line dump you right into the paddock area. Also don't have high speed approaches and hard brake zones right in front of the paddock.
I particularly loved the endurance course but do we want to shorten it (I heard a few complaints like slow and tight but obviously they had a few lug nuts loose).
There were a ton of newbies there - More instructors are needed and I heard from the gang that next year a bunch of our ax'ers want to just help out during the day and get a few fun runs in at the end of the day (awesome idea).
Maybe even do two courses since we have the space - one for official timing, the other for fun runs and newbies (untimed).
We should sell/give out bottled water.
Place Show and Shine and Cars and Coffee on that strip of road where they eventually ended up....you can pack a ton of cars in there.
Maybe have Coca-cola park sell food as well - not just for the drivers.
If more vendors come - where would we place them. Fabspeed and Meguiars usually bring big rigs.
Dial up the same weather as this year
Just a beautiful DayOther suggestions and thoughts
RE: Thoughts for P4P 2014 - BBrandis - 08-05-2013
OK, I'll dive right into it.....
- Agree. Same venue for next year since the parking lots are great, facilities are great - club level restaurant, concession stands and rest rooms
- Agree. 3 or 4 run groups. Due to the high volume of newcomers, one thought could is to let the newcomers drive with instructors for the first runs of the day, without timing, but still time them to work out any potential timing issues. Then later runs would be the regular autocrossers with Gold Pass drivers. I'm also thinking if there is a rookie / newcomer division, they could pay less and maybe get a total of 3 runs; sort of a "taste of track" for AX. This would have to be set up in registration.
- Agree. I like the actual idea of a physical ticket to give to the starter for the Golden Tickets, when they're gone, they're gone. Just no scalping the tickets!
- My two cents, we should SCCA timing. This way drivers see their times displayed on a large clock at the end of their runs, and they can broadcast driver numbers and names over the radio like at Porsches and Planes years ago. Also need an area to display driver names, times at a public area so people know the standings. Even some spectators who are familiar with AX asked for a display area to post times and standings.
- Agree. on Both accounts of not dumping finish line right into Paddock, some drivers were flying through paddock at end. Also agree about not having high speed approaches and hard brake zones right in front of paddock and especially not in front of spectator areas. That made me nervous.
- Don't shorten it. I think a longer course is something that could be the "signature" for the RTR sponsored event. We do enough other short courses, a long one is nice every once in awhile.
- Agree. Love the idea of having our own AX'ers act as instructors for newbies. Help grow the sport by bring new people in and see that we are a great group of guys and gals.
- Disagree on the two courses idea. That would take double the manpower and also not give us a longer AX course.
- Agree. Provide water for drivers and volunteers
- Agree. On show and shine location along main entrance.
- We'll have to check on having more concession stands open. This would have to be worked out with them as to what is available.
- Maybe place vendors along opposite side of main road entrance from Show & Shine. Foot traffic in that area would be high and car traffic low and slow.
- Lastly can't promise the same weather as last year, but here's hoping we can.
RE: Thoughts for P4P 2014 - Wally - 08-05-2013
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. This should not be a discussion for the Forum. I intend to bring up a brief discussion at the Exec. about next year and once we have a firm leader for AX we can proceed from there. The site has immense potential and the timing issue has been resolved.
RE: Thoughts for P4P 2014 - csmith74 - 08-06-2013
This should not be a discussion for the forum? Why not? My two cents:
PROS- Great venue, nice new, smooth parking lot with plenty of room.
For a first time event it successfully raised a decent amount of money for it's target charity.
BIG course. Best one I've seen outside of Hershey, tight gates and all. The combination of big sweepers, tight box turns and both wide and narrow gates made for a challenging event.
Lots of newbies & cheerful volunteers.
Terrific weather. Obviously we can't expect it every year, but this was a perfect day.
The regular Riesentoters who made it discussed running the event instead of driving. I think that would be an excellent move. If we have time to organize and prepare for hosting rather than prepping our cars and worrying about being in the right place in line we can be much more effective and make the event run smoothly.
CONS- Truly embarrassing conduct by the scoring and timing people. I know I won't make any friends saying this, but the level and volume of swearing and shouting at what was supposed to be a family friendly event was not acceptable. I don't know how things are handled at DE events, but I have never seen anything like that at any other AX.
Tying in with the first con, inadequate and untested (in actual field) timing equipment. I am 100% in favor of bringing in the SCCA to handle the timing and scoring. Doing so will probably increase the number of drivers as well, since the event will get more attention with their members. As the person who donated all the trophies and class leader glasses I was very disappointed with the decision to simply dump scoring. My entire donation was invalidated with one sweep.
Not enough radios & signal flags. This could be a dangerous problem. Every work station should have it's own radio, and a single coordinator should be responsible for receiving and confirming reports. This would also serve to reduce the shouting from the control tent.
All in all it was a decent first attempt, but a few problems are going to have to be addressed (in an open suggestion forum, not a closed-door session - we all know how well that went over with PnP). Kudos to Brian, for bringing it all together.
RE: Thoughts for P4P 2014 - saucerman - 08-06-2013
Kudos...I agree - it was a public event that's why I opened up the discussion on this forum...I want to know both the good and bad so we can improve upon next year. Thank you for both pros and cons.
And I want to personally apologize for your out of pocket expense - those glasses are really really nice - It really is a shame their original intent went by the wayside. The decision was made not to keep score was just to try to get the drivers on the track instead of waiting in a hot cars as people were becoming a little irritated. I'll bring it up at the next board meeting. Thank you for your donation and again I'm truly sorry.
As for the timing....I have already spoken with SCCA and all they need from us is the official date and they are on board to help us out with their timing truck and all it's benefits.
Now I thought it was very unfair to say our AX chair is not a strong leader when he hasn't had a chance to prove himself yet. He was just named AX chair less than 3 months ago and went in for emergency surgery on friday before the event. I'm sure Dave would have rallied his troops given the chance since they all respect him immensely.
RE: Thoughts for P4P 2014 - Cayman0515 - 08-06-2013
First I would like to thank everyone who put a great deal of time and effort into making the event successful. Putting on large scale events is not easy and there are always issues that come up before and during an event that need to be addressed and everyone made the needed adjustments that could be made quickly. An example of this was Yoyi and I walking around and passing out water to drivers in the afternoon. Now that the initial event is behind us, the process of looking at what we can improve upon and do differently for next year begins. The discussions here regarding new ideas and solutions to existing challenges is very healthy and will provide valuable feedback for the executive board to consider and discuss. As a member of the executive board I can guarantee that we welcome any feedback that will enable our club to make this event better and raise as much money as possible for a worthy charity.
This was to be only my second foray into AX, but I did not have the opportunity to run the course as I gave up my spot so a last minute driver from our charity could go on the course. However I do have several specific comments I would like to make. The first is that I disagree with the comment made that the course is too long. I did not hear any complaints from drivers I spoke to about that. They seemed to find it very challenging, and like someone else commented here that this could end up being a signature event for us due to its length. The length enables drivers to be challenged for a longer period of time, which is different than the norm. Several other board members and I discussed having the SCCA handle the timing with all of the technology and experience they have. This would still allow our members to focus on the overall organization of the event and other logistical needs, while strengthening the valuable partnership we have with the SCCA.
I would also like to address the post that stated that this forum is not the place to discuss the issue of SCCA involvement. The is exactly the right place for these discussions as it was created for our members to openly discuss any club events and issues as well as offer a place to share ideas on how to enhance our club.
RE: Thoughts for P4P 2014 - Wally - 08-06-2013
These prior posts are why I said we are getting ahead of ourselves. The planning and execution of the event should be by the AX Chair. I did not imply that Dave was ineffective at his position. I only stated that once we have an AX chair who is up to speed we should proceed with the planning for next year. If people want to post comments on the event, pro or con, that's fine, but the planning should not be done on the Forum.
As far as the timing equipment is concerned, we've used it for other events with no problems, operated by capable people and is the same equipment used by SCCA.
For those of you who want to beat your breasts about the shortcomings of the people working the event, STUFF IT. Most of us have been to far more of our AX's than you have been to any DE events and were frustrated by the lack of organization of this AX, not that it is an excuse for some of the conduct displayed.
I have tried to keep this post about improving this event and not about personalities, enough of the finger pointing by anyone who is not in the game. If you don't understand my last comment, my point has been made.
RE: Thoughts for P4P 2014 - BBrandis - 08-06-2013
The only two things that I would like to address is that I take exception to your statement that you are / were frustrated with the lack of organization of the event. Being the chair, you don't know half of what went into planning this event. When it came time for the AX portion, it was delegated and / or volunteered by people within the organization stating the AX would be taken care of. As far as I'm concerned, as others will concur on this forum, is the fact the course layout was exceptional and well received. The issues and delays caused directly by the timing equipment also impacted other portions of the event. Concession stands, lunch, cocktail hour and raffles all had to be shuffled on the fly due directly from delays with timing. Chuck even had awards donated, which now will go to waste. Therefore, timing had a greater impact than just AX
If timing is not perfect next year, we will lose a lot of people and we'll have "egg on our face", which is not something I want to leave to chance. I know exactly what went into planning this event and many great people stepped up to make it great. This was the 1st time and these are all lessons learned and as of right now the biggest issue to address is timing, plain and simple.
RE: Thoughts for P4P 2014 - Brian Minkin - 08-07-2013
Since we have stared to air our dirty laundry in public I will express my feelings about this event on the forum.
For every AX, DE and Club Race I have worked (more then you can count on your fingers and toes) there are always either several planning meetings or conference calls involving all the volunteer leaders to plan and coordinate all aspects of the event. To the best of my knowledge this did not occur for this event so the staff seemed to have no coordination or organization. The sudden illness of the AX chair had little effect on the clubs ability to run a flawless event since the pre planning was not in place. No schedule was published and the schedule I heard verbally was not adhered to so as a result the event got off to a very late start which added to the issues experienced on Sunday.
Regarding the timing equipment it has worked flawlessly at 3 previous events never missing a heartbeat. So it was proven. The radio interference from the near by giant cell tower was something no one could have foreseen and I believe that only wired equipment would have worked at this location. Please note that the timing equipment worked fine early in the day until the cell activity increased as the day went on. This was just as frustrating for those of us responsible for timing as it was for the drivers. We simply could not get the equipment to work at all as the day went on.
The comments about wanting to have the SCCA displays for drivers and spectators also would have required planning since these are wired devices and have distance limitations that I believe this course layout exceeded. Again pre planning would be required to have these features in the event.
Regarding radios and flags the club has 8 radios and after talking to the course designer the night before the event I was advised that more radios were needed for this course layout. I dug up 2 more in the 11th hour that I personally own and we had 10 radios which the course designer stated was adequate to get the job done. If more radios were required this is again a pre planning issue. The club has only had 5 red flags for years and again if more were required then this is an issue that needed to be brought up in planning the event.
So now my laundry is on the line as well.
RE: Thoughts for P4P 2014 - saucerman - 08-07-2013
now for some reason I have Don Henley running through my head.....