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+--- Thread: Tune up for Summit Point-Video (/showthread.php?tid=419)
- Mark Fox - 04-01-2007
Here is some video, from one of the Master's, Larry Herman. The weather looks like the temps may be VIR revisited. Bring the warm clothes.
We should try to keep the RTR contingent together; any thoughts on pit location?Anyway here's a video for those of you who have heard about Summit Point,
- Tony356993 - 04-01-2007
I love that video. I hope the weather holds out for you guys. Have fun.
- Brian Minkin - 04-01-2007
Just grab some space against the woods where the power box is so we can hook up my trailer and have heat. If I get there first then look for my trailer. Gonna be a great two days despite the cold. Hell maybe the track will be less bumpy since it contracts in the cold.
hock:
- michael lang - 04-01-2007
That is one of the best Summit Point videos I've seen yet.
Although I'm curious about something, Larry if you don't mind me asking, coming down the chute into T5 it sounds as though you are downshifting from 5th into 2nd. You then proceed around the carousel shifting into 3rd just before T6 and into 4th just before T7 entry. Bear in mind I'm going on sound only, the video doesn't show your gear shifter nor can you see the tach, and listening to the video it doesn't sound like your car's engine is really working that hard through that section. My question is, why would you not let the engine rev up a little more and stay in say 3rd gear through T6, T7, T8 to set yourself up for 4th gear as you come up on T9 so that you can have better momentum as you climb the hill before the bridge? My second question is, I noticed there were 5th gear to 2nd gear shownshifts to set up for T1, how much smoother is that then normal 5-4-3-2 downshifts & doesn't that hurt the clutch or the engine?
- Racingswh - 04-02-2007
As far as downshifting is concerned it can be done either way. 5-4-3-2 or 5-2. The problem arises in the 5-2 shift when done too early in the braking zone and creates a possibility of mechanical over-revving. The engine does not like this and will expire pretty quick. Less driver movement in the car means less opportunity for mistakes so the 5-2 shift lends itself to the economy of movement theory.
- TwentySix - 04-02-2007
Can't wait to get out there!
We try to paddock by the open space back in the woods so that my little guy can have a little more room to run around. Never been to a Schattenbaum event, what are they like?
Michael L... once you get the footwork down it's much faster to shift 5->2 than go through all the gears. Not that this is a race
Quote:Hell maybe the track will be less bumpy since it contracts in the cold.
![[Image: roflmao.gif]](http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/graemlins/roflmao.gif)
- michael lang - 04-02-2007
I understand the footwork part and understand that no one is racing, that being said, does skipping gears on the downshift allow a driver to dive deeper into the turn than not skipping gears? And if so, doesn't it throw off the weight balance with loading up the front end so heavily?
- bobt993 - 04-02-2007
It's ...... faster. Threshold braking with heel toe action will slightly affect your pedal control on the brake. Typically safer since 5th to 2nd is hard to miss, worse case you end up in 4th. You can however manage 5th to 1st instead of 5 to 3rd on while going 5,4,3,2nd. That would be bad. You could load up the trans/engine only if you shift early. Best habit to avoid this is keep your right hand on the steering wheel until you feel the speed is correct, then proceed to heel-toe. Practice.
- Racingswh - 04-02-2007
michael lang wrote:
Quote:I understand the footwork part and understand that no one is racing, that being said, does skipping gears on the downshift allow a driver to dive deeper into the turn than not skipping gears? And if so, doesn't it throw off the weight balance with loading up the front end so heavily?
It does not allow you to go deeper into a corner. It can throw off the balance of the car.
1st part- The imaginary braking zone is about 300 feet. You apply the brakes and maintain steady pedal pressure and after 300 feet you're at the proper speed to go around the following corner. While you're braking you need to downshift the car so that when you apply the throttle in order to exit the corner you're in the proper gear to get the best acceleration you can. So that said you have 300 feet in which to get all your downshifting completed. You can skip gears or not. If you choose to skip gears you have to wait untill you're later into the braking zone and slowed down more before downshifting. Bob made a great point by recommending to just keep your hand on the wheel until you have slowed the car enough. Doing it either way correctly and with precision does not change the length of the braking zone but.... If you're going down 5-4-3-2 and your brake pedal pressure reduces slightly with each throttle blip you're now going to need more time to slow the car. You're now lengthening the braking zone meaning you will have to start your braking sooner. This is slower. I believe this is exactly what Bob means when he talks about threshold braking and the control required while you're heel and toe downshifting.
Braking deeper into a corner as you know is "trailbraking" and that can be done AFTER using either downshifting technique. All of your shifting should be done before turn in and no shifting should take place after turn in while you're trailbraking (it will happen but it shouldn't and this will be how you look >
hock: when you do it!) 2nd part - What you're trying to do is use all the available grip of the tires as efficiently as possible. If you're doing anything that upsets the balance of the car you will be slow at best and at worst you will crash alot. If you are skipping gears and you are doing it too early in the brake zone still carrying too much speed to be in the lower gear you're selecting or just not blipping to a high enough engine rpm you will get "engine braking". It's when you hear the engine rev when someone let's out the clutch after they downshift. This is slowing the car. It's using some of the tires available grip to do that. If you're threshold braking and you downshift too early you will lock up the rear tires because they have no more grip available. Also if you do it too late and too abruptly let's say after turn in you will likely lock the rear tires and spin the car especially in your 911. The front tires are loaded by the brakes mostly and it's going to be rear tire grip that will be compromised by a less than smooth downshifting technique.
In the end it's best to do what's most comfortable for you. How deep you go into the brake zone should be the very last thing you worry about. I would work on your speed and traction sensing skills. Making sure the car is on the correct line and deeply "feel" what the car is doing, where it has traction and where you can add more throttle. The reason I say this is that late, deep braking usually requires a transition from full threshold braking to throttle modulation in a very short time window. Unless your other skills are honed properly you can actually be slower as all you're doing after the brake zone is fighting for control of the car instead of being smooth, picking up the throttle early and going faster.
- Brian Minkin - 04-02-2007
Michael...a great explanation
Thank You