+- Riesentöter Forums (https://rtr-pca.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Club Activities (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Forum: Driver's Education (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=29)
+--- Thread: Product review (/showthread.php?tid=486)
- smankow - 04-19-2007
In starting to get ready for track season, I pulled my drivers suit out of the bag to air it out and quickly realized that I needed to get it cleaned. The suit (OMP) didn't have cleaning instructions and I was cautious about proper care. I wouldn't want to find out that my nomex suit was no longer fire retardant.
I had heard about a new product from Molecule Labs that you can simply use in your washer and dryer (it's is a no-no to wash nomex with regular laundry products). When purchasing the kit ($100), it comes with all of the products that you need - Wash, Spot Remover, Protectant and Refresher. Plus, it comes with a measuring cup, tester for the protectant and a DVD instruction video. The Wash, Protector and Refresher come in 20oz bottles.
After spraying the spot remover in a few areas, I put my suit and gloves into the washer along with the Molecule Wash. Then I used the Protector to keep it fire retardant (not required after each wash). I was very sceptical about drying the suit on high heat for 60 minutes but the suit didn't shrink at all. I'll try the Refresher during an upcoming event.
Overall results - suit and gloves were clean (spots gone) and were as soft and fresh as when they were new. It's an easy process (instructions were decent) and will definitely be cost effective over drycleaning. Plus, I'll use the Wash and Refresher more often than drycleaning.
The only negatives were very minor points. The measuring cup doesn't have multiple lines (you use 1, 2 or 4oz) for varying levels of soil and there were a few "inaccuracies" in the instruction video - I followed the written one. That's it.
So, if you want an easy and effective way to keep your nomex attire clean and fresh, try the Molecule Labs Products. It's so easy to use, even I could use it
![[Image: thumbup.gif]](http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/graemlins/thumbup.gif)
Let me know if you have any questions. I highly recommend this product. Now if only they made something for helmets ....
Steve Mankowski
- Wellardmac - 04-19-2007
Steve,
Nomex is inherently fire retardant, as the fire retardency is a property of the material, not the property of a coating applied to the material, so washing Nomex will not take the flame retardency away.
Nomex can be washed.
That being said, whether it's recommended that your suit can be washed is a different matter, as you don't know what other treatments that they put on there for things like water repellancy, fabic build, etc.
If you're interesting in knowing more about Nomex, take a look at http://www.nomex.com/
- Wellardmac - 04-19-2007
I followed up on this some more, as the claim of not being able to wash nomex with regular detergents just didn't sound right to me.
A little bit of googling shows that as I suspected nomex suits can be washed in a regular washing machine with regular soap ** unless the manufacturer specifies different washing instructions for the purposes of preserving other attributes of the suit **
http://www.automotiveworkwear.com/landryinfo_nomex.html
What you're buying with the Molecular Labs product is not a special soap, but a fabric treatment designed to help prevent oily stains from soaking into the fabric and becoming a flash fire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecule_(Brand)
Now, realistically, do you need it? Well, if you're just wearing the suit and not getting it into situations where it could be soiled with oil or fuel (i.e. you're careless with those items), then no, you do not need this product.
Let's ask the question of whether if you got a small amount of oil on the suit whether it could be a hazard... a small amount, still not - a cosmetic annoyance, but not a hazard, as there would be so little fuel there to burn that you would not have an issue.
...large amounts, then that's a different matter, but I'd hope that you wouldn't be working on your car in a situation that would get you exposed to large amounts of fuel/oil and potentially ruin your suit.
Bottom line:
If you want to keep your suit free of oil stains while working on your car, then this cannot hurt. Personally, I'd take off my suit.
Do you need it, no.
It's seems a little expensive when you consider that you're buying spot remover and a fabric treatment that you shouldn't need and can buy more cheaply from a grocery store.
I'd stick to regular (non abrasive) stain removers and just have your suit washed properly in regular detergent. If you'd like to be nice to your suit, then dry-clean it occasionally - that should work just as effectively and work out cheaper.
Sorrry for the long post, but it's a hobby of mine to debunk the excessive claims of products that hype up "issues" to sell their product at inflated prices (as well as urban myths). $100 for a soap kit falls into the snake oil category for me. I hate to see people spending excessive amount of money on stuff they don't need, or can buy more cheaply in other products.
- smankow - 04-19-2007
Wayne, you do not know what you're talking about. It's too late and frankly, you think that you know it all, so anything that I write won't make any difference to you.
But, I'll make one simple point. Motorsports and drivers education are hobbys that occur in and around flammable materials - gas, oil, etc. It's not as easy as "I'd take off my suit" to avoid stains and such. You need to check tire pressures as soon as you come off the track. That is exactly what it means. Not after you've taken off a suit, drank water, talked with your buddys, etc.
If you need to comment, you need to know what you're writing about. You only have cursor facts. Here is what your link states about the product:
Molecule is a brand of fabric care products manufactured by Molecule Labs in Benicia, California. Molecule Technical Fabric Care System is designed to clean, protect, and refresh Nomex and other technical fabrics. Nomex is a flame resistant material used where protection from heat and fire is required.
Molecule is sold internationally in the motor sports industry as a care system for racing suits. The product line includes Molecule Protector, Molecule Wash, Molecule Spot Cleaner, and Molecule Refresher.
Molecule Protector is a fluorine-based spray that protects technical fabric from absorbing fuel and other flammable liquids. The product is applied to the exterior of flame-resistant clothing to create a protective coating. Because fluorine is a relatively small molecule, it creates a very thin coating that allows the fabric to breathe.
Molecule Wash cleans technical fabric in standard washing machines. Molecule Spot Cleaner is a pre-wash concentrate for deep stains. The products differ from common laundry detergents because they do not contain fabric softeners or other additives that can attract moisture, oils, and flammable stains.
Molecule Refresher is a spray that contains an antimicrobial agent to inhibit the growth of bacterial odors. Auto racing professionals such as drivers and pit crews apply the product to the inside of flame resistant racing suits between washings. The antimicrobial agent in Molecule Refresher is also an ingredient in Molecule Wash.
Molecule was first introduced in 2006 as the only fabric care system specifically formulated for Nomex and other technical fabrics.
Yes, Wayne, this is the link that you are saying is "snake oil". There have been fires on track and in the paddock area. I certainly would not want to find out that my nomex suit that you are telling me to machine wash isn't providing protection.
Again, if you don't know what you're talking about, why do you have to comment?
- Brian Minkin - 04-20-2007
Steve,
This is a from the Dupont (manufacturer of Nomex) web site regarding the care of nomex garments.
"Both NOMEX CGF[suP]®[/suP] and NOMEX THERMOCOLOR[suP]®[/suP] are inherently flame-resistant, so they don't have topical treatments that will wear off over time or be washed out during cleaning. They are superior choices for abrasion resistance and durability. They can be maintained easily by conventional methods without concern for fading, cracking or fiber degradation."
In the 80's I was the IT manager of a company that sold Nomex fabric and thread. Care instructions stated that convential washing is the best way to maintain Nomex. Dry cleaning was not recomended because it left residual solvent on the material.
- Brian Minkin - 04-20-2007
Since we are on this topic if your driving suit is single layer Proban it can also be washed without bleach or fabric softener but has a maximum wash cycle of 25 washings before it degrades its flame resistance. Nomex will not degrade no matter how many washings it is put through.
Also the amount of grease or oil picked up from checking tires or other basic padock procedures will not degrade the protection of Nomex. You would have to pour a quart of oil directly onto the suit to have an effect on the flame resistance.
- smankow - 04-20-2007
when I bought my suit (OMP multi-layer - 3, I think) last year, I asked about cleaning. I was told not to wash it due to issues with something in laundry detergent, fabric softener or both. Neither the suit or the tags gave a clear indication about care. I went back and re-read all of the info from the suit to be sure. I even talked with suppliers.
Purchasing a product designed for Nomex certainly doesn't qualify as "snake oil". We spend a lot of money on our addiction. Spending a little to ensure that our safety gear remains that way is minor and not even remotely excessive. I certainly wouldn't want to find out at the wrong time that my suit had "issues".
Now, to get back to the purpose of this thread. I used a product that is designed specifically to clean nomex. I used it and liked it and wanted to share my views. I only stated that I was told not to machine wash nomex using regular laundry items. It's unfortunate that our "resident know it all" turned this into something else.
- Brian Minkin - 04-20-2007
I appreciate your concern about your suit. Fabric softener can leave a coating so it is recomended not use detergent with fabric softener added. Ivory powdered detergent is 99% pure soap and this is what I use to launder my suits. Drying in the dryer is fine just do not add a fabric softener sheet to the dryer. Nomex inherently will not get static cling. I am sure the Molecule labs product does everything it claims but it is not required to maintain Nomex clothing.
- dmano - 04-20-2007
MY 2 CENTS:
I USE WOOLITE ON MY SUITES, NOMEX HELMET, GLOVES, SOCKS AND SHOES. IN THE WASHING MACHINE AND I HANG DRY THEM/ AIR DRY THEM.
THIS RIGHT FROM THE MANUFACTURE AS ANOTHER WAY TO CLEAN THEM.
DO NOT EVER DRY CLEAN NOMEX.
- Wellardmac - 04-20-2007
Steven,
Your response was unfortunate, but predictable. If you re-read my post you will see that my first instruction was to follow the manufacturers instructions. If the manufacturer says clean with snake oil, then you clean with snake oil - simple as that.
After that I posted two links that explained what Nomex is (Brian quoted from the webpage - obviously you didn't read it) and the other explained the typical care instructions for Nomex. There was no opinion there, just facts and links to easy to understand web pages for your reference. Next time I'll try to find web pages that use shorter words for you to understand.
As for my knowledge on polymers. BTW, Nomex is a polymer. I am a polymer scientist. I have spent the better part of the last 20 years learning about, researching, designing and inventing new polymers. If I know anything, I know polymers very very well.
It is unfortunate that you did not appreciate my advice, but I didn't expect you to. My main hope was that others could avoid the expensive and embarrasing mistake of spending $100 when they didn't need to.