+- Riesentöter Forums (https://rtr-pca.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Club Activities (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Forum: Driver's Education (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=29)
+--- Thread: DE Scheduling Suggestion (/showthread.php?tid=695)
Pages:
1
2
- larrybard - 08-06-2007
I'd like to make one suggestion about DE -- and am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that it should be posted to the "Suggestion Box" rather than under DE.
I think DE would be much more efficient -- less rushed for instructors -- if after the red and black sessions the order was blue-white-green. Just as was done on Friday at WG (but inexplicably changed on Saturday and Sunday).
From my observation -- though perhaps I'm wrong -- when an instructor is assigned to two students at an event, normally the students tend to be in the blue and green run groups (rather than white and either green and blue). If an instructor has blue and green students, and green immediately follows blue, then the instructor has to rush to change cars/students each time (and work assignments can increase the difficulty).
And, yes, as a green student I have a corresponding, selfish interest -- with an instructor who also has a blue student, it's been difficult or impossible for me to get on the track with the rest of my run group, so almost every session I lose several minutes of track time.
Thanks for considering my suggestion.
Larry
- bobt993 - 08-06-2007
Yes, but......... Larry the problem is we have alot of Black group instructors, so someone always has a struggle. I thought almost every instructor had one student. I instructed in black and white and found it hard to make the blue students run depending on getting back in the pits. The main problem at the Glen was the "modified pit out" where they released cars and held incoming cars. Glen said this was more efficienct, but that did not take into account that the incoming cars were shared or that the drivers in the cars had to get to a student. Never seems to be a perfect solution.
I do think we can further "tune" this part of the event. So let's keep posting to this thread until a solution can be provided that Jack likes.
Here's one option to start the ball rolling: Instructors used to go out anytime they want in solo groups. This helps with their student schedule and also aids in evaluating solo drivers. I would not worry about instructors over-using this privilege. I have run completely open track days and I tell you there is a limit to the machine and the driver and it not much different than what we already get. This way an instructor can make changes to adapt to a situation with a student(s).
- Tony356993 - 08-06-2007
Quote:Here's one option to start the ball rolling: Instructors used to go out anytime they want in solo groups. This helps with their student schedule and also aids in evaluating solo drivers. I would not worry about instructors over-using this privilege. I have run completely open track days and I tell you there is a limit to the machine and the driver and it not much different than what we already get. This way an instructor can make changes to adapt to a situation with a student(s).Nice suggestion.
Bob and I both have 2 drivers sharing the same car. This situation is our choice and we should be aware of a potential conflict but Bob's idea would work. On most instances, it is better for me to run with the red group as this avoids any back to back issues with me and Sharon or me and my student. However, if running in black would be "better" for my schedule and would work out with Tom and Jack, I'm all for it.
Quote:And, yes, as a green student I have a corresponding, selfish interest -- with an instructor who also has a blue student, it's been difficult or impossible for me to get on the track with the rest of my run group, so almost every session I lose several minutes of track time.Larry - We were all in the green group once and we have all had to wait sometimes for our instructors to get in the car car with us. When I started, all of the instructors had 2 students and they would do the best they could but were almost always a bit "tardy". I have only had a few times where an instructor was late for selfish reasons - generally they were late because they were on the track driving or instructing the session before volunteering to jump into a car with a complete stranger.
I make it a point to get to my student(s) as quickly as possible and I'm sure most instructors do also. I understand your point and it is well taken.
The bigger question might be, is it better to have 3 longer sessions at a big track like the Glen which would eliminate some of the time lost transitioning instructors vs 4 shorter sessions. If you had say a 30 minute session and missed a few minutes it would still feel like a long enough run.
- larrybard - 08-06-2007
Just so there's no misunderstanding, I did not mean to imply in any way that an instructor was the slightest bit at fault; nothing could be further from the truth. (Nor can I recall any other instructor I have had being responsible for a delay.) I was focusing exclusively on the fact that it's inherently so difficult for an instructor to have back to back run groups without the second assignment "suffering" a little, in terms of losing a minute or two (or sometimes more) of track time. And to put it in the proper perspective, any disappointment I felt was directly traceable to having such a fantastic time, and feeling as if I was benefiting so much from my instructor, that I regretted every lost second of track time. I probably would have needed at least double the track time each day in order to start feeling that I had enough. So -- at the risk of sounding like an Academy Awards speech -- thank you, again, Bill, Jack, Carol, Paul and everyone else who made WG (and other events) such a satisfying pleasure. I really don't want to sound like I'm complaining. I'm not. Any time you hear a green student yearning for lots more track time, or even a few minutes, you know you're doing a whole lot of things right. And already I see how challenging it is to optimally schedule instructors/sessions. For example, I didn't realize that instructors spent any significant time with white -- putting aside occasional blitzes.
Larry
- bobt993 - 08-06-2007
Larry, we all have been in your place. No need to apologize, it gets better as you move forward. As far as track time. Most drivers think they could go another hour a day. (I think maybe 1/2 hour more while still learning the fundamentals). I believe this is not true by my own omission and experience. Two hours seem to be about the max for rentention, minimal fatigue/error = possible accidents. If you could graph this with real data you would see a non-linear increase in car failure and "spins", "offs", and the unfortunate bent fender. The longest track time I have posted was 6 hours a day for two days straight and I suffered severely.
Alot of solo drivers request instructors and to me that is the luxury of being solo, you can ask the instructors you think may know something at specific tracks. ie, Larry H. and I, amongst others, have run more than 10days this year at the Glen, so this can help someone with less time. What might surprise you is how much time some instructors spend in cars not driving. I know I have run as many as 5 sessions in a row! (this is of course volunteering, but certainly not by the programs design).
Glad you had fun.
- jakp993 - 08-06-2007
Scheduling was a monumental chore for the Glen. I know personally cause Carol, Tom & I spent about 2 hours on it trying all sorts of different configurations.
Classrooms, run groups, work assignments, instructor loads, etc. all factor into the schedule.
We have a lot less flexibility at the Glen than we have at any other track. The run sessions must start at 8:30, the day must end at 4:30, lunch must be from 12:00 - 1:00, and the classroom sessions had to be scheduled between 9:00 - 2:00. We took as many liberties as we thought we could.
FWIW - if you look at previous schedules, Red - Black - Blue - White - Green is the preferred sequence as it gives instructors as much flexibility as we can. And quite honestly, we prioritize instructor convenience over student convenience.
cya,
Jack
- Sechsgang - 08-06-2007
I have often had to wait for instructors but I never made anything of it as I was just happy to HAVE an instructor...that said, there have been times where I have missed a good deal of a run (8-9 minutes) of a couple of sessions and its frustrating at times...but they always show up and always are there to teach in the end. Also,I have to applaud Jack for the scheduling at the events and especially WGI this past weekend because it always seems to work out pretty well!
- jakp993 - 08-06-2007
bobt993 wrote:
Quote:I do think we can further "tune" this part of the event. So let's keep posting to this thread until a solution can be provided that Jack likes.Bob,
Here's one option to start the ball rolling: Instructors used to go out anytime they want in solo groups. This helps with their student schedule and also aids in evaluating solo drivers. I would not worry about instructors over-using this privilege. I have run completely open track days and I tell you there is a limit to the machine and the driver and it not much different than what we already get. This way an instructor can make changes to adapt to a situation with a student(s).
I'm totally OK with instructors balancing thier workload during an event by deciding what run group to drive in. It is one of the privaledges you get by volunteering your services as an instructor. The workers are informed to let you out in any run group.
You just have to look at Kenny for inspiration. He typically WANTS two students, and then he runs in Red, Balck and sometimes White. He's our Ironman
We'll keep this "open" policy for instructors as long as we don't abuse the privaledge by terrorizing the non-instructor run groups.
Take care,
Jack
- catchacab - 08-06-2007
Our DE volunteers have done a great job in making the run schedule. I have seen many different ways of scheduling, and none is perfect for everyone.
As an academic exercise let us assume there are approximately the same amount of instructors in black as there are in red, and there are about the same amount of students in blue and green, we could schedule all of the red instructors with blue students and all the black instructors with greens students.
Run sessions could be Red, Black, Blue, White, then Green.
- jakp993 - 08-07-2007
catchacab wrote:
Quote:As an academic exercise let us assume there are approximately the same amount of instructors in black as there are in red, and there are about the same amount of students in blue and green, we could schedule all of the red instructors with blue students and all the black instructors with greens students.
Run sessions could be Red, Black, Blue, White, then Green.
If it were only that easy
But, you've got the concept, which is why that sequence is preferred. It also helps instructors only be in a car 2 sessions in a row if they have both a Green and Blue student.
cya,
Jack