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+--- Thread: LIME ROCK ? A CLUB, NOW? (/showthread.php?tid=703)
- betegh9 - 07-07-2007
Has been anounced today that the 350 acre facility of Lime Rock Park is becoming a PRIVATE Club. Membership will cost $110,000.00 with anual fees of $550.00. 300 memberships will be sold, each lasting 50 years. So this is NOT part ownership. The membership will allow members 60 track days a year plus additional days for professional races, etc.
this scenario may leave only a few BAD open dates where car clubs be able to rent.......The prospects are not good.
Lime Rock is not in our back yard, so why should we care? Well, You can imagine that NNJR, CVR, Metro NY will be sharpening their pencils to get as much as they can from Thunderbolt, and that is only Porsche clubs. Now add Nasa, SCCA, BMW, Japanese eggbeaters, etc clubs fighting for the same dates. What could/should we (RTR) do?
Get the picture?!!
hock:hock: I understand that our DE program is TOP KNOTCH, but that alone will not get us track days at Thunderbolt. Any comments or sudgestions are welcome. This toppic is to open discussion about this issue.:dude::dude:
- Brian Minkin - 07-07-2007
Nick,
The announcment about Lime Rock seems to be structured much like VIR and this will not make it an exclusive members only track. Clubs should still be able to get track days there and major spectator events will still be held there. It is simply a way for Skip Barber to get more capital to repave the track and improve the facilities. 30 Million will not improve and carry the facility for 50 years.
Of course we are doing our best to get dates at Thunderbolt. Tom has been in regular contact with them.
- bobt993 - 07-07-2007
Thunderbolt will be looking for rentals that procure as much facillity as possible. This is the format at VIR. PCA club racing lost a date there because of the more complete rental offered by SCCA and NASA. You can't blame the track, but if you have multiple offers, you take the highest bidder.:?
- smankow - 07-08-2007
I've heard that the annual fees at Lime Rock Club were going to be $7,500, not $550. That adds another $2,250,000 per year on top of any rentals.
This announcement leave me to wonder who is pocketing the years of "repaving fees" that they have been charging.
- michael lang - 07-08-2007
Nick has a very good and interesting point of view. Many tracks appear to be going in that direction. The price of fixed operations for a track must be astronomical, I can understand why many complexes have made their facilites a members first type of "club". I use that term loosely. Look at what has happened to the NFL. In 1997, when the Ravens first came to Baltimore, I had the opportunity to buy a PSL for something crazy like $800.00 in the middle of the field. I didn't because I favor another team but my point is look at what has happened in the NFL over the last 10 years with teams and how they had to come up with creative solutions to pay for their fixed operations. All the tracks are doing is copycatting a formula that works. Track time will still be able to be had. Tracks will always have payroll to make, equipment to pay for, insurance and taxes that have to be covered, and they will be looking to us to help them meet all those obligations. Nick I understand your concern especially for a new track but don't give it too much worry, RTR does put on an extremely good event and its reputation will get it good dates on the Thunderbolt schedule.
- catchacab - 07-08-2007
Here is an idea:
A group of track junkies should form a corporation to explore the possibility of purchasing an existing or proposed track, or even one that construction started on. Instead of membership, the corporation should sell shares. This should be considered an investment by those purchasing shares. The can be voting and non-voting shares. Founding shares should be offered for purchase to us track junkies, non track junkies (non interested investors) can purchase non-voting shares. The cost of construction or renovation can partially be met by selling shares.
Just food for thought.
- bobt993 - 07-08-2007
Yeah..............but.....................
TWS was up for sale this year and alot of guys explored just this scenario. The big problem with tracks is revenue from club events is minimal compared to a pro race venue. Then the problem is how do you get the pro race over another existing track on the circuit. The business model just does not add up. If you think a consortium could absorb the whole project as their own private golf course with equal dues........ the smart guy/gal would rent as we do now.
There are plans for a private track outside Atlanta with top shelf wine/dine features. The main straight doubles as a landing strip for private aircraft....... Now were talking $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
- smankow - 07-08-2007
Bob, if any of us travel to Atlanta, will you let us use your membership for a day?
- bobt993 - 07-08-2007
I know someone who looks to be buying in. That's about as close I will get actually having a membership. If this facillity actually gets built, it will raise the bar on the private club model. I did not know about this, so that tells you that the people that can afford it, have already been contacted.
- catchacab - 07-08-2007
With the number of tracks increasing in an acceptable distance from our location, we are entering into a drivers market. Many clubs have had difficulty filling some events at some tracks. As the number of tracks increases, there will only be more opportunities for additional track rentals for us. This will be so even if some become country clubs.
Lime Rock will have to improve many amenities such as cell phone towers, lodging and dining, in addition to improvement to the track surface, and garage availability and Sunday driving to become attractive to more members.
Pocono and the Glen do receive more income from spectator events than from DE. They are dependant on NASCAR, and for the Glen to a lesser degree IRL (hope you watched today) and Grand Am. The Glen will reschedule any DE to accommodate the spectator events. The chance of them becoming clubs is remote. As the new tracks come on line in South Jersey and hopefully in NE PA, Summit will draw less drivers from the north.
A track that could be built in our area, with investors who are auto enthusiasts can work, we would draw upon the New York metro area (a ton of $$$ up there compared to here), Baltimore and Washington metro areas.
We need to have civic minded auto enthusiasts move to Union Township.