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+--- Thread: How do I get started? (/showthread.php?tid=720)
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- Phokaioglaukos - 08-15-2007
Ok, I've decided that I want to go racing (I think). I've done the Skip Barber 3-day school and that gets me a SCCA regional license upon payment of various fees and I'm getting that underway. I have a physical exam scheduled and I'll get my doctor to complete the SCCA and PCA forms for me. I plan to rent a spec Miata at Summit Point sometime this fall and do a test day and at least one race, maybe on the same weekend. What more/different should I do?
I'm not sure what class I will want to race in, but I know it won't be in my current Porsche. My car would be in A because it has a lightweight (single mass) flywheel now and I do not want to race a car without a full cage and that would require making the car not very streetable, or saleable. For Porsche I'm thinking F Class, but then I want to keep a mind open to all sorts of alternatives.
Racers, please give me your advice!
- jakp993 - 08-17-2007
Chris,
I can't help you with PCA racing as I've never done it, but I can give you a clue about SCCA and the smaller EMRA group.
I think you are wise to not use your current car
First, you should ask yourself "what do I want to get out of racing?". Is it winning? Is it the thrill of close racing? Is it the comraderie? Is it skill enhancement?
Next, thing to determine is how much $, and time, do you want to dedicate?
The answer to these questions will help you determine how to move forward.
For example: If winning is an objective, then you must study the class structures to find out which cars are dominate in each, what mods need to be done to that car to be competitive, etc. Organizers try to group cars with similar capabilities together, but there are always better cars than others. Also, be prepared to have to change cars as the cars get reclassified. When I was racing in the SCCA ITS class, the 2nd Gen RX7 was the car to have, until they let the E36 BMW's into the class. Irregardless, be prepared to spend $ in non-spec classes to win as you will be constantly chasing the ever changing rules.
OTOH, if close racing is your goal, there are lots of "spec" classes that significantly limit the mods you can make. You mentioned on of the most popular, Spec Miata. There's a 944 spec class as well if you want to stay in the Porsche family. The spec classes usually require a smaller investment, have larger fields, and winning is more determined by skill vs. $ spent.
If improving your skills is the main objective, I'd recommend a lower hp car and associated class that will require you to be incredibly smooth to maintain momentum.
As far as SCCA vs. PCA... Look at the cars in the paddock at a race. From what I've seen, the SCCA guys seem to view their cars more as tools-of-the-trade. There are folks that are incredibly meticulous with their machines, but I think you'll see a greater % of cars that can best best described as "cobbled together" than you will on the PCA side. This doesn't mean the SCCA guys are any less intense than the PCA crew, in fact - I would say they are more intense, but they are less concerned about how their car looks vs. how it performs.
For real low key racing, try a group like EMRA. They are a smaller org that basically uses SCCA rules, but are much more laid back.
That's my $.02. I'm sure other will chime in with their perspectives.
Jack
- Phokaioglaukos - 08-17-2007
Thanks, Jack. I'd like to get a bit of experience this season at (relatively) low cost to see what I think. There is a test day and a MARRS race 9/21-23 at Summit Point and then the Washington SCCA group has a school at SP at the end of October. I hope to do both of those in a rental car. I thought Miata would make sense as they are cheap to rent, low powered and reasonably capable, but several have told me that it would be a mistake--the Miata class is large with many who do not mind trading paint or punting cars. I may have a line on a 944 that I could rent and run in ITS, but that is not certain. If I had to decide right now I'd go for the Miata, but I'm getting concerned. At the last MARRS race three Miatas wound up on their roofs and one driver got a four race suspension for contact.
Long term I'm more interested in PCA Club Racing, but I have a quick path to a SCCA license, there are cars I can rent to drive in SCCA, I can schedule the last MARRS race and the October school at Summit Point and I have a conflict for the SP PCA race.
To address your questions in turn:
My goals, are first to improve my driving (lap times, car control and track awareness), second to enjoy competition and third to enjoy the camaraderie as I do at our DEs. I'd like to have a car that is capable of winning at some point, but that need not be my first race car.
For money and time, well that remains to be seen! My thought is to rent a car for a couple of races and see what I think.
I'd appreciate your further thoughts.
- bobt993 - 08-17-2007
Chris,
If your absolute goal is PCA club racing, then get a prepared car and start taking it to DE's as several clubbers have done recently. I think the experience will be more positive. Club racing has a different mood around the paddock in PCA. The other groups are great also, but you will find yourself in competition that will not give up the corner and or take it at any cost. There are also not incentives to win in PCA other than an ego "ata boy".
Car for PCA would be from C stock down. Your goal right now is to gain comfort in entry and corner speeds. I am now within a second of the top cars in my class which include better prepared cars and more seasoned/talented drivers. If they have a bad day, I am there. That has given me a win and a 3rd place, but I am now hiring a pro coach for gaining maybe .5 secs a lap, then the car is next and that would require .....more money. In a prepared car, you should start racing when your within say 3 seconds off the very top of your class. You can start before that and have fun, but you may find it a little frustrating as it's hard to learn from another driver that you can't stay with for even one corner. You can learn race craft by racing, but in order to use it, you need to be near the times of your competition otherwise your going to drive offline the entire race on one side of the track (seriously).
One last option for tune-up. Do some track days at Summit when they have open groups and limited attendance (typically 10 to12 cars). During these events there is a more open policy to passing that can be established. This could help get you into the groove. The difference though is huge to actual racing. In DE, you get a gradual move up the ladder. In racing, you get some acclimation, but for the most part, "Your on your own!"
Your going to love racing and I am interested in how your first race goes, so keep me posted.
- Phokaioglaukos - 08-19-2007
bobt993 wrote:
Quote:If your absolute goal is PCA club racing, then get a prepared car and start taking it to DE's as several clubbers have done recently. I think the experience will be more positive. Club racing has a different mood around the paddock in PCA. The other groups are great also, but you will find yourself in competition that will not give up the corner and or take it at any cost. There are also not incentives to win in PCA other than an ego "ata boy".As far as I can tell, PCA CR is a better fit for me than SCCA CR is. The mood and approach sounds more like me. That said, though, there are not that many races that are near Philadelphia. LRP, Mid-Ohio, WGI and SP. I do not see myself going to FL or farther into the mid-west. What races to RTR people attend?
It may be that a combination of PCA and NASA would make sense.
Renting makes a lot of sense to me for this fall, and maybe into next year too. It would let me try different cars in different series. I still have a lot to learn in RTR DE (as you have seen!) and my current car is fine for that.
Keep the advice coming, please.
- bobt993 - 08-19-2007
Chris, I believe "King Rat" racing has spec Miatas and possibly some 944 NA's for rente. He is 5 miles from SP and a great guy. Races nearby is a problem. I think Limerock maybe done so that leaves WG and SP. I think we will see Thunderbolt too. If you add in Nasa, you have SP, WG, and VIR all over again. I like what I have seen from Nasa and Darren has alot of experience with them. What is going to move you off your current plateau is moment and it will be easier and less costly (in case of a mistake) to do this in a low HP car. The throttle will not bite you as easily as the GT3,so you can use it more aggressively. You could take the PCA school, but it is pretty close to Oct already. If I could do it over again, I would do the Nasa school, it is very thorough and better prepares you for an actual race.
- jakp993 - 08-19-2007
Chris,
I think renting is an excellent idea. You can get a feel for the car, the organization(s), etc. without the up front captial investment.
I know there are 944's available for rent if you are leaning towards PCA CR.
cya,
Jack
- Sechsgang - 08-19-2007
*Raises hand meekly for trying to stick it out in PCA clubracing at Summit in October*...gulp...guess I better get some(read ALOT) of "offline" practice...
FWIW, if you liked the 3 day from Barber, youll love the 2 day as they generally allow open passing during certain times and it gives a great feeling of the more "natural" flow of wheel to wheel under "kinder" conditions...I know I loved it.
That said, I feel that WHENEVER I would have gotten into Clubracing it would be "early" so I figured as long as I was safe and wasnt a roadblock or a threat, just getting the experience in a race at a track I like and am a bit familiar with would outweigh just plopping myself at a track that I didnt know as well later after doing more DEs...
For those who have done the PCA clubracing, how did you end up doing so? Was it a first, middle or last step in your racing "carreer"?
- bobt993 - 08-20-2007
I am not sure what the question is, but if your asking when to progress to CR, then the general consensus is when you can drive the track at speed and not need to look at visual cues to brake, turn-in, track out. Your visual acuity should allow you to look down the track, behind you, left and right side while still making turn-in with speed. It takes about five laps or so to "separate from cars and realize your competition. During the first 5 laps, your busy.
Reality is, most drivers enter racing when they think they are fast enough to win (whether they admit it or not). Being a back marker wouuld not be fun for very long. I would say be realistic by the measure of your lap times. If you can run within 3 secs of the first two cars, you will learn and be competitive in your class (and get faster doing so). Being 5,6 seconds behind will put you offline out of the way for the entire race. Yes, that gathers experience, but at what? Especially if your bracket has your group as the slowest cars, then your getting lapped by GTC and GTS cars running waaaaayyyy faster.
- michael lang - 08-24-2007
Chris, I'm excited for you. You are about to do something that one day I hope to get into. It's way too early in my driving experience to do something like that but whatever group you decide I hope you do well with it. For me, I'm going to continue doing the autocross and DE events but will also give 1 maybe even 2 time trial events a go next season with EMRA. They usually come down here to Jefferson in the spring & fall. For you, I say, OUTSTANDING. I wish you much success.