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+--- Thread: "Brand New" Nitto Tire Design… Available February 2009 (/showthread.php?tid=1421)
- George3 - 11-22-2008
MPSC are notorious for requiring a lot of heat in the tire before it gives you any kind of grip. Even after one long lap at Watkins Glen is not nearly enough for these tires. They require several laps. That's why they are a preferred summer tire - - not early spring or late fall tire, because of the ambient temperatures. Not putting the tire down, it's just a reality.
- ninjabones - 11-22-2008
Larry,
As Brian commented, the MPSCs can be a bit dicey on the street when cold (more like hockey pucks than tires). I think the NT-01s would be a better hybrid (street / track) tire as they behaved much more humanely at lower temps. I can't comment on the street mileage with the MPSCs, as the only street time they saw was driving off track to get gas.
- bobt993 - 11-23-2008
George,
I do not agree with your assessment of MPSCs taking that long to heat up. I can usually get them to full stick in half a lap. Good practice for sprint races in scrubbing in tires. Look at it as another skill to work on at DE's. The only time I have had problems getting them up to temp is in the rain at the Glen, but even then it was a little less than two laps.
- George3 - 11-23-2008
bobt993 wrote:
Quote:George,Bob,
I do not agree with your assessment of MPSCs taking that long to heat up. I can usually get them to full stick in half a lap. Good practice for sprint races in scrubbing in tires. Look at it as another skill to work on at DE's. The only time I have had problems getting them up to temp is in the rain at the Glen, but even then it was a little less than two laps.
Not doubting, but you're probably right. My experience with the MPSC at one of the tracks was not a pleasant one. Perhaps the tires were old, perhaps the weight of the car. Although, a half a lap .... This is no doubt middle of summer.
- bobt993 - 11-23-2008
George,
MPSCs behave very much like real racing slicks. They need to get well above 150 degs to stick. I think slicks go at least 40degs higher. To get heat in them, you must cross the slip angle alot. Nope on middle of summer for running them. I have run them in 40 to 50deg dry weather and posted the following times on my track computer: Glen: 2:13xx, VIR 2:12xx, Summit Point 1:23 flat, Pocono North 58 flat, Shenandoah 1:39. The laps also are consistent and include 3 or 4 laps in a row at DE's so race times would be a little faster yet. With proper car setup, they are about a second a lap slower than Hoosier R6s.
I strongly recommend DE drivers learn on these tires (heavy cars around 3000 lbs especially) as they help understand how to get a tire to temp quickly. They last along time, do not need excessive camber; fall away gradually; and tend to have a wider grip to slip bandwidth. Running new Hoosiers at DE's ( at least new ones) makes no sense as it is a lot of money to get those one or two session trophy's. Used, older Hoosiers are also great for learning on, but leave the good tires for racing and qualifying laps or time trials where 10ths matter. You can buy Hoosiers that are scrubbed in from racing teams at a fraction of the asking price.
- larrybard - 11-23-2008
Bob et al.:
Quick related question about heat cycles: Am I correct that in a typical DE event, given the time between sessions, each session would normally be a new heat cycle in terms of heat cycle longevity (e.g., 50 cycles or so). Or might they not have cooled down sufficiently, at least between the typical two morning sessions, and two afternoon sessions, to react as if there were 4 separate heat cycles?
Thanks.
Larry
P.S. I understand that the proof is in the actual experience -- if the tires behave as if they are significantly losing their adhesion after six two day DE events of 8 sessions per event, then that's the answer.
- betegh9 - 11-23-2008
George3 wrote:
Quote:bobt993 wrote:Quote:George,Bob,
I do not agree with your assessment of MPSCs taking that long to heat up. I can usually get them to full stick in half a lap. Good practice for sprint races in scrubbing in tires. Look at it as another skill to work on at DE's. The only time I have had problems getting them up to temp is in the rain at the Glen, but even then it was a little less than two laps.
Not doubting, but you're probably right. My experience with the MPSC at one of the tracks was not a pleasant one. Perhaps the tires were old, perhaps the weight of the car. Although, a half a lap .... This is no doubt middle of summer.
Most people blame the tires for "driver error".
hock:hock: those round doughnuts are lifeless couch potatoes........ one just has to take what it will give you
:dude::dude:
- bobt993 - 11-23-2008
Larry,
A heat cycle is considered up to temp and back down. A run session whether cut short or 25mins should be a heat cycle. Now the extreme is an enduro or a red/black flag on your out lap. I guess a track log and chalking the inside of the tire when you rotate them is the best way to keep track of the tire wear/life.
- George3 - 11-23-2008
betegh9 wrote:
Quote:Most people blame the tires for "driver error".Nick -- I'm not blaming the MPSC tires. Although, I've had excellent success with all other tires, i.e. MPS (not C), NT-01, RA-1, R888, Corsa's, Hoosier R6's and Hoosier Slicks.
- Racingswh - 11-23-2008
I have never seen a tire last as long as the MPSC does and still be fast It brings the cost of use of the tire down significantly. I know they are quite expensive initially.
If it's taking long to heat up a tire it's probably your driving style. If you are comfortable in the beginning of a session or race with lot's of slip angle (as Bob is) then the tires heat up quite quickly. Simply put you are initially driving too slowly to get the tires to heat up and work properly as soon as you would like them to.
You know I have never equated a tires performance as to why I crashed and destroyed the car. It was always me and my performance and my guess is that it always will be me or possibly another driver and not his or her tires either. lol!