+- Riesentöter Forums (https://rtr-pca.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Club Activities (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Forum: Driver's Education (https://rtr-pca.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=29)
+--- Thread: Corvettes in a Porsche club? :) (/showthread.php?tid=2878)
- DJbrand1 - 06-28-2011
Don't want to open a can of worms, just an honest question. Recently sold my 944 Turbo and looking into getting another P-car. Been doing more DE's the past couple years and noticed more and more Corvettes at the track. My thoughts are parts/maintenance must be cheaper then a Porsche. Am I right? I have lots to learn, but in planning my next purchase I am thinking of the better platform to develop, be that with a small budget. C5 Vette or 84-89 911? Again, not looking to start any wars here, obviously we all have the same interest.
Thanks!
- dmano - 06-28-2011
Same bang for a lot less bucks buy/build a Fox Mustang. Or you could buy my El Camino that is already done and passes all the Vette's. :dude:
- vego - 06-28-2011
Don't get me wrong, I love Porsche but for the track you just cant beat the performance vs. price of admission with the newer vettes. I have been considering one myself.
-e
- Tony356993 - 06-28-2011
vego wrote:
Quote:Don't get me wrong, I love Porsche but for the track you just cant beat the performance vs. price of admission with the newer vettes. I have been considering one myself.
-e
Agree.
- Darren - 06-28-2011
DJbrand1 wrote:
Quote:My thoughts are parts/maintenance must be cheaper then a Porsche. Am I right?Don't fool yourself into thinking the consumables will be cheaper. It's more a question of speed than make of car. If you go fast in a Vette you're going to eat up brakes and tires MORE than a similarly priced Porsche because you get a lot more car for the money
- ninjabones - 06-29-2011
I got to drive a student's Corvette at Lightning a few weeks ago for the first time. The thing was f'ing amazing. That's a lot-o-car for the money. However, I still personally feel that certain p-cars represent overall better value based on longevity and reliability.
As an example, I've done over 20 races in my 16-year-old 993, and up until this weekend did not have a single DNF. Broke a half-shaft at VIR (which is essentially a consumable item... and actually was the original one from 1995).
I don't want to jinx myselft, but I've been beating on Precious for 3 seasons (20+ track days per year) and I've missed a total of one run session (busted a shift fork at Summit) and one race (this past weekend) due to mechanical issues. Now, driver mistakes (contact with inanimate objects) did cause a few other missed sessions, but we won't go there (and I certainly can't blame porsche for that)
- DJbrand1 - 06-29-2011
Darren wrote:
[/quote]
Don't fool yourself into thinking the consumables will be cheaper. It's more a question of speed than make of car. If you go fast in a Vette you're going to eat up brakes and tires MORE than a similarly priced Porsche because you get a lot more car for the money
[/quote]
By "more" car I assume you are referring to weight or just really the difference in speed between the two cars? The 84 911 weighs in roughly 2800 lbs compared to a C5 Corvette of 3250 lbs. I would think the 911 would be more friendly on consumables being lighter and less powerful, but from what I am reading on the 911's the calipers have a pretty small pad surface area and eat up pads fairly quickly. My buddy has an 81 with big wilwoods up front and I believe c2 Carreras in the rear (overkill) and he barely shows any wear on the pads after 4 DE's and they are mild street pads. Granted we are both still running in Green and not generating serious temps. Over hearing some of the vette guys they say they can get oem rotors for about 50 bucks a pop.
Going back to my original intent of the question, which would be the better platform to learn on? (keeping small 27 year old budget in mind
)
- Darren - 06-29-2011
DJbrand1 wrote
Going back to my original intent of the question, which would be the better platform to learn on? (keeping small 27 year old budget in mind
)[/quote]What I meant was let's say you have $40k to spend and your choices are a 2005 911 or a C6 Z06. The Z06 has more power and roughly the same weight right? If both cars are driven equally hard then the Z06 is probably going to cost more to run because it's faster.
People do DE for different reasons. For some people it's about the cars (or a car), some its driving but also the social aspect. If your goal is to be fast then the best thing you can do is buy something slow and cheap. Slow so you can learn to drive fast and cheap so that you can run more events, afford coaching, etc...
In a slow car like a Miata, Integra, many BMWs like an e30 or e36 325i, Corrado, anything like that -- when you blow a turn and you see someone gain car lengths on you the thought pattern is like "holy crap, it's going to take me 10 laps to make that back up" versus in a high hp car "oh well, I'll just get on the throttle a millisecond earlier next straight. Slight exaggeration but you get the point.
I like the old 911's of course for learning this stuff but the challenge is that they are just a lot more difficult to drive fast than either a modern 911 or any other car that has the engine in a more common location. If you can drive an old 911 fast then you can drive anything fast, the only challenge is not wrecking while you're learning.
- AMoore - 06-29-2011
I have tracked an 87 911 with essentially a street setup; a 93 911 RS America with a track set up, and an 03 C5 Corvette Z06 with a total street set up. I never had any serious mechanical issues with any of the cars; however, I only tracked the vette a few times. The 87 Carrera was slow and boring once my skills became more polished. No doubt modifications would have helped in the handling department, but I really enjoy going fast. The 93 RS America was a blast to drive, and although not the fastest car out there, it is a car that was not boring as I always felt like my skills were improving and I was driving the car as opposed to the car driving me. The Z06 was amazingly fast and fun even with a stock set up. I can't imagine how fast I could have gone with R-compound tires and seats and harnesses. That being said, I felt like the car was driving me as opposed to me driving it - not bad, just different. Unlike my RS, I never got comfortable getting loose in the turns. Also, the Vette was probably safer given the stability control.
In sum, it really depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for a certain sensation, let that dictate the path you take, not the price. If price is a bigger concern and you just want to go fast - buy a C5 Vette. If you go with a Vette, aftermarket seats are a must as the factory seats suck.
Feel free to shoot me a message if you would like to discuss further.
- steveh - 06-29-2011
I drove a student's C5 Z06 at Thunderbolt yesterday and was very impressed. My student, who was a fairly competent novice, was way faster than just about everyone else in the green group, in part because the car was just so capable. My concern is that the car's abilities will tend to flatten out her learning curve, and she'll reach the limits of her skill at a much higher speed than the student who's driving a Miata, with potentially more serious consequences.
I agree with Darren -- if you're not looking to drive a particular make, model or vintage, or just to blast down the straights in a screaming V8, but instead your goal is to be a better driver, then I would take whatever budget you have and buy a cheaper car with good handling and lower HP, and invest the rest in the driver.
I sold my 1987 951 a couple years ago, drove a Miata for awhile, and now have a 1992 325i sedan with 247k miles on it that is a fun, reliable, cheap to run track car. A lighter car like a Miata, E30 or early E36 BMW, or 80's era 911, should be kinder to consummables, and parts should be easier to find and afford. There's a great article in last month's Grassroots Motorsports on the different iterations of the 911 from the 70's through early 90's -- what to look for, what needs to fixed or beefed up, etc.
With a lower-horsepower car, you probably won't be the fastest car on the track, but you'll get faster because of your skills, not because of the car. If you can drive a slow car fast, then you can drive any car fast.