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+--- Thread: Motor Oils (/showthread.php?tid=430)
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- Brian Minkin - 04-14-2007
At the tech session today some discussion came up about the reformulation of Mobil 1 synthetic oils and issues that the reformulation can cause. I mentioned to Larry Herman that I had read an article regarding this subject and that I would post the link to the article. Its long but very interesting regarding the reformulation. It also appears that Mobil 1 is again reformulating the oil but I can not find test results on the latest offering appearing on shelves now. However the latest offering has a different API spec then the reformulated oil sold last year and appears from the packaging to be addressing some of the concerns expressed in the article.
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
- Phokaioglaukos - 04-15-2007
Thanks, Brian, I think. Oils can be a religious matter. No easy answers here, and we won't know for the newer, water-cooled cars what we should have done until it's too late! If I had an air-cooled car I'd stick with an oil with additive specs that were current at the time the car was built, but on a synthetic base, if possible. For my car I'm sticking with Porsche's recommendations, and worrying.
- stentech - 04-15-2007
The discussion was about a multi million law suit due to engine failures using US spec. Mobil 1 in extended service interval engines. The service interval was tested using Euro spec Mobil 1 which has a different formulation to the US spec oil. I will get back with the exact information. Stay tuned.
- Brian Minkin - 04-15-2007
I had added to the discussion that I had read that some engine builders who build race engines are finding that since the reformulation they are seeing greater wear on the rod bearings and cams then they had previously seen. In these engines the oil is being changed after a race weekend so its not an extended wear issue. One of those threads had lead me to book mark the link I supplied as I am down to 2 quarts of the old stuff and was not sure what to do at the next oil change. I will try to find the links to the forums I had seen the words of caution on. I think it was Pelican or RennTech.
- jakp993 - 04-16-2007
Here's another interesting article on motor oils. Royal Purple comes out looking very good.
http://home.comcast.net/~jackakramer/Misc/Oil_Tests.pdf
Jack
- Brian Minkin - 04-16-2007
Wow after looking over Jacks oil article I have now come to the conclusion that my motor is junk after running Mobil 1 for several years.
- stentech - 04-16-2007
All Mobil 1 oils are not 100% synthetic base. They do not meet certain specifications set forth by Automotive Manufacturers Association (ACEA) This organization sets the oil standards in Europe. Where the American Petroleum Institute (API) sets the standards in the US. Unfortunately for the U.S. consumers the API oil standards are often lower tier to make all parties happy and ultimately the oil formulation is a compromise for fuel consumption, emissions, and cost issues. It is not illegal for an oil manufacturer to state that an oil is full synthetic even though only a it may not be.
The law suit mentioned in the above post cost Mercedes Benz 32 million. This was brought on by engine failures caused by oil being used that did not meet the strict ACEA oil specifications in their flexible service system vehicles with extended drain intervals. Many of these engine failures were using Mobil One 5w30and 10w30 (available at Wall Mart) when the only oil that was approved was their 0w40 European formula. Although synthetic oils are a vast improvement over conventional oils not all of them meet the standards set forth by many European car manufactures. In the U.S. Many people choose their oil based on TV commercials rather than real test data on their specific engine. Today's engines (and transmissions) are changing rapidly and so are the oils required to keep them running properly. One oil that meets these ACEA standards is Elf synthetic motor oil. ELf has a vast array of oils that are meeting the standards set forth by all European car manufactures including Porsche. If you not careful what oil product you use it is possible for the manufacturer to deny warranty coverage. So chose your oil wisely because the incorrect selection can cost alot more than the 3 $ per quart more you may spend for oil with the correct properties.
SM
- Brian Minkin - 04-16-2007
Take you car to the Porsche dealer for an oil change and they use Mobil 1. I am sure its domestic formulation..not Euro. So Exon Mobil has created a ticking time bomb for all of us including those who get the car serviced at a Porsche Dealer.
- stentech - 04-16-2007
If you noticed Kenny was putting 0w 40 into his GT3. That meets the ACEA specs as long as it is the euro formula. The engines usually fail when their out of warranty so I guess its not bad for Porsche. Doesn't it seem like there are allot more failures of more recent engine than the pre 996 era engines.
- Larry Herman - 04-17-2007
To quote a portion of the article:
"We have to make it clear that this experiment only tests one specific attribute of each oil, so while the oils we tested may have performed poorly under these test conditions, they may perform better in other tests. Your engine bearings have a much larger surface area than in our test (obviously), so the wear characteristics will not be anywhere near as severe."
I have heard this test severely criticised for being completely one-dimensional and not really appropriate for testing automotive oils, as they never see anywhere near these kinds of loads unless a bearing or other part is already failing.