Thunderbolt Raceway Line and Video

[Darren]

ghassler wrote:

Darren - one thing I would tweak on your description of the turns is on turn 4 - you can track out all the way and still have time to setup for 5. I make a lot of ground on people through this turn who take it too tight by only tracking out 1/3 or 1/2 way. This was on a motorcycle, but I don't see why it wouldn't apply to cars as well. I cringe every time I watch a car on youtube choke that corner off instead of carrying the full speed you can carry through it.

You might be right, I'll have to play with it next time I'm there. I wasn't pinching it off for sure, and I'm sure I can go through there faster tracking out further. I'm just not sure whether I could get back online in time for the next turn.

[steveh]

It's a tricky combination of turns.  You can carry plenty of speed through T4 and track out all the way (a la T4 at Summit Main), but that might leave you short on T5, braking too hard to navigate the tighter corner, which is followed by quite a long straight.  You could track out left and reset to the right, but IMO that might upset the suspension a bit, because there's not a ton of room there to move from full track left to full track right before turn-in for 5.

Thought it interesting that it looked like the Rolex DP and GT cars both took T4 fast, tracked out 3/4 left and stayed there through the braking zone, with what looked like a little trail brake, into T5, allowing them to try to pass inside (or defend inside) on T5.

Can't wait to get back there and try that, along with Greg's line.

Nothing like experimenting on a new track!

[ghassler]

Hey Steve!

I was watching the same thing on the Grand Am race.  Turn 5 is about the slowest turn on the track, mathematically making that your throw-away turn - turn 4 is more important.  I think you can actually brake for 5 while cutting across the track from left to right and then drop into 5 wherever you end up.  5 is one of the few late-apex turns on the track anyway.  As you mentioned the 4-5 complex is also a great setup for passing; I think this may become one of my favorite areas on the track.

[redcar1]

I agree with you guys, and am convinced that the fastest way is to carry evey mph you can through 4, get back to full throttle for as long as possible, tracking out left, then bend the car track right before braking for 5, as much as you can, sacrficing as much right side track as you need on the entry to 5.

Mark

[Darren]

redcar1 wrote:

I agree with you guys, and am convinced that the fastest way is to carry evey mph you can through 4, get back to full throttle for as long as possible, tracking out left, then bend the car track right before braking for 5, as much as you can, sacrficing as much right side track as you need on the entry to 5.

Mark

I'm not sure. Let's race

[steveh]

Darren wrote:

redcar1 wrote:

I agree with you guys, and am convinced that the fastest way is to carry evey mph you can through 4, get back to full throttle for as long as possible, tracking out left, then bend the car track right before braking for 5, as much as you can, sacrficing as much right side track as you need on the entry to 5.

Mark

I'm not sure. Let's race

Headed to comp school next spring. After that --you're on!

[steveh]

Check out this video from the Automatic Racing M3 at the KONI Challenge race at Thunderbolt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqposOecvkw

Jeff Segal hits T4 hard, tracks 3/4 left, and stays there, rotating a little into the apex at T5, and then just hammers the throttle into the straight.

Great view of in-car; the view out the windshield is not so hot, but it's fun to watch Segal's car-control skills at work, and he' s clearly going FAST.

[Darren]

I hate to say it about a pro driver, which I'm obviously not, but I'm totally not impressed with that video.  He was going fairly fast, but he's running 1:30 in the first two laps.  The first lap he is all over the place, the wheel is sawing like crazy, he's jumping on and off the throttle throughout. 

This video has no value for a DE'er to watch.

Watch him at :36 lift over the crest and amost lose it, terrible!

I was driving 1:34-1:35.  He was in a pro built all out race car and was 4-5 seconds faster than my street car 911, with soft springs, driven very smoothly.   I'm just not impressed.

I don't even think you need to be on-line in that car to be fast.

 

[steveh]

I was most interested in the T4 - T5 combo; the rest was just for entertainment value.  I don't think I would advocate the pitch-and-catch driving method for most DE drivers, but it's still fun to watch someone who can get away with it (including not having to pay for the ride when he pitches too hard and can't catch it).

[Darren]

Sure, it's a different style but he doesn't really do it correctly anyway.  Todd can do the pitch and catch very well andd I think he'd woop these Koni challenge guys.  Plus I think he mostly does it when the car isn't handling correctly, i.e. the Probe with a bent strut.

The car is the only thing that lets this driver do that in T4-5.  The real question we're asking is whether it makes sense to bring the car back right only to have to go left.  Something has to give, either you take T4 slower and T5 faster, or the other way around.

I'd rather go faster through T5 because that leads onto a straight-away.  You'll make more time going faster in a turn that leads onto a straight-away than you will on a turn that leads into a slow turn.