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03-03-2009, 03:04 AM
Wally wrote:
Not to be contentious, but...the same rule states: "Five, six or seven point SFI or FIA approved competition harnesses, are required and must be properly mounted in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications (see Appendix B). (my italics and bold for emphasis. Not to make it over long, but both Porsche and Schroth specify the use of the sub-bar and bracket mounting.
I have found numerous instances on the PCA site where the euro gt3 seat/bracket/sub-bar combination was recommended as alternative to the older modality of bolts/washers. To whit...
"For years we liked the TRW/Sabelt camlock belt system, but that seems to have faded now, and the Schroth product seems to have replaced it. That is certainly true with Porsche Motorsports cars.
Unfortunately none of the 5- or 6-point racing harness products are designed for the stock seats. In fact it is a bad combination. The shoulder harnesses are free to slide down the sides of the seat, and you can't bring the sub-belt (the 5th and 6th pieces) up through the seat, so this is not considered safe. At minimum a rear section roll cage is needed, along with FIA approved race seats to really upgrade the car for track safety. Doing it halfway can create more risks than you might think. For a long time we liked the "harness bar" installed across the B-pillars, but that adds risk for back & neck injury, so that is no longer recommended.
Since you have a 996, you have an option that we never used to have before; you might be able to find & fit the 996 GT3 street car parts, which include the bolt-in cage, the seats, and the Schroth 6-point harnesses.
There are many many suppliers for this sort of thing, I would start by looking at the various offerings, and see who is responsive to what you need. Or try FVD,www.fvd-usa.com, they have some experience with the GT2/GT3 interior systems as well as a line of German made bolt-in roll cages. However, you may also want to find someone in your area who has done this kind of conversion work before. Safety equipment like this must be taken very seriously, and should only be installed by professionals with a track record, no pun intended.
Joel Reiser - PCA WebSite - 5/18/2003"
Additionally, my understanding is that the rules for club racing do not apply eo DE evetns, again to quite the PCA site, the question was:
"There seems to be a great deal of confusion about what is required by each club to do DE events. I have no interest in competing in anything, I just enjoy DE very much.
I would like to enter some of your PCA events, but the rules as I have been lead to understand them are a little out of sync with the materials supplied by PGA.
I have ordered my car with a GT3 Racing seat (FIA) & a roll bar assembly, Porsche's own, and a 6 point harness for the driver's seat, again Porsche's own. I have been told by someone that Porsche's own equipment isn't 'allowed' in a PCA event. I'm sure this can't be right, can you please clarify the situation."
The response was:
"I think the confusion comes from a Porsche Club Racing rule (which by the way has been changed for 2004). Since you are talking about Driver Ed, it would not have been an issue anyway. The rule change (for what its worth) is basically that some of the 2" lap belts are now allowed, and others have to change to a 3" lap belt. All this is spelled out clearly in the PCA Club Racing rulebook, available online elsewhere on this site.
For Driver Ed, I like to start by going over the checklist of your intended events' Tech Inspection form. If there are several regions you might run with, get both of their forms (they are usually pretty similar).
Usually you don't have to do much to a new car. However, you may find they want to see "equal restraints" for both you and your instructor. So that would imply getting the passenger's side belts to match yours.
The bulk of the tech inspection form and process involves checking things like brake pads and fluid to see that they are freshly serviced and ready to go, which yours should pass easily. We check suspension parts for cracks or loose bolts, again your GT3 will likely pass with ease. Your helmet needs to be checked, and so on.
Joel Reiser - PCA WebSite - 1/29/2004"
To make this clear. I spent a good deal of money and time to focus on safety. I am not trying to cut any corners. If i did, i would have put on some loud fart-cans on the car, etc. No, my only significant modifications to the car have safety ones. I care about this. I want to do it as well as possible. Porsche and Schroth have come up with a system that seemingly has been used for years. We put our faith in their cars, can they possibly be full of s--- when it comes to safety. I am perplexed. Basically, i am not convinced that an eye-bolt with a washer mounted to sheet metal is going to be safer for me and my instructor than the OEM system. I am also perplexed that this seemingly has not been an issue before, these are all items that have been around for years.
food for thought. fve
Quote:Harness attachments are addressed by item #14 in the PCA safety requirements. In part it states, "Harnesses cannot be mounted to seat or seat rail. Mounting must be to the chassis backed by large diameter washers. No two harness straps can be attached to a single mounting bolt......etc.."
In short it does not matter how Porsche mounts its harnesses to their Sport Seats. We are governed by PCA for our DE rules and insurance.
Not to be contentious, but...the same rule states: "Five, six or seven point SFI or FIA approved competition harnesses, are required and must be properly mounted in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications (see Appendix B). (my italics and bold for emphasis. Not to make it over long, but both Porsche and Schroth specify the use of the sub-bar and bracket mounting.
I have found numerous instances on the PCA site where the euro gt3 seat/bracket/sub-bar combination was recommended as alternative to the older modality of bolts/washers. To whit...
"For years we liked the TRW/Sabelt camlock belt system, but that seems to have faded now, and the Schroth product seems to have replaced it. That is certainly true with Porsche Motorsports cars.
Unfortunately none of the 5- or 6-point racing harness products are designed for the stock seats. In fact it is a bad combination. The shoulder harnesses are free to slide down the sides of the seat, and you can't bring the sub-belt (the 5th and 6th pieces) up through the seat, so this is not considered safe. At minimum a rear section roll cage is needed, along with FIA approved race seats to really upgrade the car for track safety. Doing it halfway can create more risks than you might think. For a long time we liked the "harness bar" installed across the B-pillars, but that adds risk for back & neck injury, so that is no longer recommended.
Since you have a 996, you have an option that we never used to have before; you might be able to find & fit the 996 GT3 street car parts, which include the bolt-in cage, the seats, and the Schroth 6-point harnesses.
There are many many suppliers for this sort of thing, I would start by looking at the various offerings, and see who is responsive to what you need. Or try FVD,www.fvd-usa.com, they have some experience with the GT2/GT3 interior systems as well as a line of German made bolt-in roll cages. However, you may also want to find someone in your area who has done this kind of conversion work before. Safety equipment like this must be taken very seriously, and should only be installed by professionals with a track record, no pun intended.
Joel Reiser - PCA WebSite - 5/18/2003"
Additionally, my understanding is that the rules for club racing do not apply eo DE evetns, again to quite the PCA site, the question was:
"There seems to be a great deal of confusion about what is required by each club to do DE events. I have no interest in competing in anything, I just enjoy DE very much.
I would like to enter some of your PCA events, but the rules as I have been lead to understand them are a little out of sync with the materials supplied by PGA.
I have ordered my car with a GT3 Racing seat (FIA) & a roll bar assembly, Porsche's own, and a 6 point harness for the driver's seat, again Porsche's own. I have been told by someone that Porsche's own equipment isn't 'allowed' in a PCA event. I'm sure this can't be right, can you please clarify the situation."
The response was:
"I think the confusion comes from a Porsche Club Racing rule (which by the way has been changed for 2004). Since you are talking about Driver Ed, it would not have been an issue anyway. The rule change (for what its worth) is basically that some of the 2" lap belts are now allowed, and others have to change to a 3" lap belt. All this is spelled out clearly in the PCA Club Racing rulebook, available online elsewhere on this site.
For Driver Ed, I like to start by going over the checklist of your intended events' Tech Inspection form. If there are several regions you might run with, get both of their forms (they are usually pretty similar).
Usually you don't have to do much to a new car. However, you may find they want to see "equal restraints" for both you and your instructor. So that would imply getting the passenger's side belts to match yours.
The bulk of the tech inspection form and process involves checking things like brake pads and fluid to see that they are freshly serviced and ready to go, which yours should pass easily. We check suspension parts for cracks or loose bolts, again your GT3 will likely pass with ease. Your helmet needs to be checked, and so on.
Joel Reiser - PCA WebSite - 1/29/2004"
To make this clear. I spent a good deal of money and time to focus on safety. I am not trying to cut any corners. If i did, i would have put on some loud fart-cans on the car, etc. No, my only significant modifications to the car have safety ones. I care about this. I want to do it as well as possible. Porsche and Schroth have come up with a system that seemingly has been used for years. We put our faith in their cars, can they possibly be full of s--- when it comes to safety. I am perplexed. Basically, i am not convinced that an eye-bolt with a washer mounted to sheet metal is going to be safer for me and my instructor than the OEM system. I am also perplexed that this seemingly has not been an issue before, these are all items that have been around for years.
food for thought. fve
996 gt3--work in progress
fve -- work in progress
fve -- work in progress