09-12-2009, 11:46 AM
ninjabones wrote:
Glen,
Allow me to comment. But first, thanks for taking the time to put this writting as a suggestion.
1) We agree, it comes up in conversation all the time. If we were able to go back to the 1 to 1 student - instructor ratio with the current 50 percent discount, would you think that to be a reasonable discount? FWIW, we do give instructors additional time on track, either by extending their run group ot them going out in the black or white run groups. And then I think when it's one to one the time between students and their run group is no longer an issue.
2) I understand what you are saying... but taking money form one event and then giving credit at another kinda hides the profit/lose for the events. I guess (OK, I know) it could be tracked so that the credits for a future event went back to the original event but that's a lot more work than just charging half up front. Let's set this one asside for a few and see what shakes out.
3) If we got back to one to one this wouldn't be an issue. But as you said in item two, if we charged everyone up front and gave discounts when they showed up that might work. I think Potomac did something like this in the past.... perhaps we should talk with them to see how that worked for them and if they are no longer do it that way, why they stopped.
4) I'm with you on that one.
5) You do not have an accurate understanding of the discount policy. But it appears that the policy has been misunderstood by a few others as well. It should be the elected exec members run at the instructor rate. This will be discussed at the exec meeting tomorrow and clarified for all involved.
larrybard wrote:
Perhaps it's time ask more questions.... are you willing to put together the correct questions for the drivers?
.................................
I'm not taking anything away from your comments and or statements but I would like to point out that even when we had advanced days (which means no students) we had a hard time filling the event. So, I think it more than just the issues mentioned above. I'm not discounting your statements... let's go with them and see where they lead us.
So, I'll take the action item to talk to Potomac to see what they have to say with regards to instructrs and discounts. I'll also take the action to meet, in person or via email or phone, with you guys (or anyone else) to see if we can put something together to propose to Myles for the budget in 2010.
Hows that sound.
Quote:From my conversations with many students, solo drivers, and instructors, a few common themes have emerged. Granted, there will likely be vocal opposition no matter what is done. However, I believe the club must make a few changes to keep up with changing conditions in the club, in the economy, and with regard to emerging competition.
1. We must absolutely positively ensure that the club maintains a competent, enthusiastic, and satisfied cadre of instructors. This is the foundation upon which the entire DE system rests. Competition from other venues mandates that we keep pace. As such, we must compensate (in some form) our instructors at a level that is comparable to other clubs. We must also ensure that instructors are given ample time to rest, provide feedback to their students, and have time to prepare their cars between runs. I also wouldn't object to instructors being given extra time on track (either extended run sessions or an additional run session during the day).
2. Consensus seems to be that instructors should have some type of financial commitment to ensure attendance. Consequently, instructors should pay full entry fees at the time of on-line registration. All discounts would be applied in the form of credit toward future events or cash refunds at the completion of the DE weekend. The same cancellation policies should apply to instructors as for students and solo drivers.
3. Discount formula. One-half price for instructors with one student, and free-registration for instructors with two students seems to be a reasonable solution from the feedback I have received. This cost would be offset by proportional increased registration costs for instructed drivers. Based on our current registration costs, this would appear to be about an additional $75 per student per driving day. Given the expenses related to a typical DE weekend (tech inspection, tires, brakes, gas, transportation, lodging, wear&tear on the vehicle, etc), I do not believe that this additional cost will decrease participation in our instructed groups.
4. Tech inspection. I have participated in events with BMWCCA, PCA, SCCA, and NASA. I've also been on our RTR tech crew for the past two years. It is clear that our tech inspection process is by far the most entailed, meticulous, organized and yes perhaps the most annoying. This is a dangerous sport. There are many things over which we have no control; therefore, we must make every effort to ensure that we minimize risk with regard to the things over which we do have control, namely, the condition and safety of our own cars. Any change in our current practices must be made with careful consideration of possible consequences. I do believe that there are many individuals in our club who are more than qualified to tech their own cars. However, I do not necessarily believe that being a fantastic driver or driving instructor necessarily equates to having the requisite skills to inspect a race car. Perhaps "tech inspection" status should be granted only to those individuals (regardless of run group or instructor status) who can demonstrate appropriate understanding and experience. There are club members with far more experience than I, who can determine what those requirements should be.
5. Event organizers, volunteers and executive committee discounts. One group that was not mentioned in this thread is, in my mind, the most important. These guys bust their butts all year long to make sure we have enjoyable, fun and well-organized events. They too should be adequately compensated for their efforts. I, for one, believe that the key organizers of each DE weekend should not have to pay registration fees (or given credit toward future events if not driving). This would include chief instructor, safety/tech chair, registrar, and track chair (1/2 price for those sharing/splitting duties). Perhaps a proportional discount should be given to exec board members based on their actual workload. I do not necessarily agree with the discounting policy that is now being submitted by our exec committee whereby all exec committee members (or their cohabitant designees) recieve the same discount.
I do not want my comments above to appear as criticism of our current speed council or executive committee. I truly appreciate the incredible efforts that have been made to make this season so enjoyable for me and so many of our club members. I applaud all of you for accepting the challenge of these tough economic times and adapting to the changing motorsport climate in our region.
Glen,
Allow me to comment. But first, thanks for taking the time to put this writting as a suggestion.
1) We agree, it comes up in conversation all the time. If we were able to go back to the 1 to 1 student - instructor ratio with the current 50 percent discount, would you think that to be a reasonable discount? FWIW, we do give instructors additional time on track, either by extending their run group ot them going out in the black or white run groups. And then I think when it's one to one the time between students and their run group is no longer an issue.
2) I understand what you are saying... but taking money form one event and then giving credit at another kinda hides the profit/lose for the events. I guess (OK, I know) it could be tracked so that the credits for a future event went back to the original event but that's a lot more work than just charging half up front. Let's set this one asside for a few and see what shakes out.
3) If we got back to one to one this wouldn't be an issue. But as you said in item two, if we charged everyone up front and gave discounts when they showed up that might work. I think Potomac did something like this in the past.... perhaps we should talk with them to see how that worked for them and if they are no longer do it that way, why they stopped.
4) I'm with you on that one.
5) You do not have an accurate understanding of the discount policy. But it appears that the policy has been misunderstood by a few others as well. It should be the elected exec members run at the instructor rate. This will be discussed at the exec meeting tomorrow and clarified for all involved.
larrybard wrote:
Quote:ninjabones wrote:Quote:3. Discount formula. One-half price for instructors with one student, and free-registration for instructors with two students seems to be a reasonable solution from the feedback I have received. This cost would be offset by proportional increased registration costs for instructed drivers. Based on our current registration costs, this would appear to be about an additional $75 per student per driving day. Given the expenses related to a typical DE weekend (tech inspection, tires, brakes, gas, transportation, lodging, wear&tear on the vehicle, etc), I do not believe that this additional cost will decrease participation in our instructed groups.
Glen, all good suggestions, I think. As for the discount, I completely agree in principle, and as I previously stated in this thread I personally would be quite willing to pay more (e.g., $75 per day), but I nevertheless wonder whether other green/blue students have the same view/price inelasticity. Was there a survey within the last year that touched on this? But maybe not specifically enough.
Larry
Perhaps it's time ask more questions.... are you willing to put together the correct questions for the drivers?
.................................
I'm not taking anything away from your comments and or statements but I would like to point out that even when we had advanced days (which means no students) we had a hard time filling the event. So, I think it more than just the issues mentioned above. I'm not discounting your statements... let's go with them and see where they lead us.
So, I'll take the action item to talk to Potomac to see what they have to say with regards to instructrs and discounts. I'll also take the action to meet, in person or via email or phone, with you guys (or anyone else) to see if we can put something together to propose to Myles for the budget in 2010.
Hows that sound.
Michael Andrews