Potomac PCA at Summit Point 7/14-15 open NOW

[Mark Fox]

Jim, glad the car is a winner.  Sorry to hear about the minor snag, but you'll get it straight for the Glen. 

[Brian Minkin]

Discussing escape routes I suppose have some merit as they will help with reaction time.  However I seem to remember a car going off at turn one at Summit and using the road to the skid pad and ending up on its roof in the trees.  The driver said he had used this pavement before when he was to hot to make the turn and was able to stop the car but this time the car got off the pavement and took him for a wild ride with the up side down result.  ( this was on rennlist a few months ago.  BMW I think)  I had an experience also at turn one as an instructor where my students brakes failed and we went off into the gravel pit and cleared the gravel and got onto the grass heading for the trees. Fortunatly he maintaned controll and was able to get the car slowed down before the trees.  The car was slowed some by the gravel and he down shifted (automatic trans) once we reached the grass and brought the car to almost a complete stop before turning left away from the trees.  So planning an escape route may have an advantage but you still need to be able to react to what the car is doing moment by moment.

To react properly takes both knowledge and experience. Knowledge can be found in the classroom but experience requires seat time and unfortunatly a mistake where you take the proper actions to correct it.

[Phokaioglaukos]

Brian Minkin wrote:

I seem to remember a car going off at turn one at Summit and using the road to the skid pad and ending up on its roof in the trees. The driver said he had used this pavement before when he was to hot to make the turn and was able to stop the car but this time the car got off the pavement and took him for a wild ride with the up side down result.

I was there and talked with the driver, who was an instructor. He had used the access road before, TWICE before in the same session! Third time he missed the road, got the ditch, went airborne inverted into a tree. Ever see a BMW with a V-shaped bumper and a gaping hole where the sunroof used to be?

Potomac does talk about esscape routes, and that could be useful, like the rock and the drainage pipe hidden in the middle of the carousel, but don't make their use a habit.

[bobt993]

I think NASA has expounded properly on escape routes by driving the inside/outside of the track.  Low speed track time running both edges of the track will give a driver the opportunity to "see" the track and be more cognizant of where to be or where to go in an emergency.  If allowed a low speed lunchtime lead follow would do well.

Most accidents are reactions to code red conditions by overcompensating.  I  intentionally put two wheels off at SP between T7 -T8 recently to see whats out there.  I could never understand why drivers run the outer rim where the grip is so crappy so I tried a low speed approach only to confirm what I learned years ago from an open wheel racer. 

[smankow]

Potomac's safety talk at the glen was also quite unique.  They showed videos of serious crashes at various spots around the track followed by a review of a chart illustrating the number of incidents (including spins, off, etc.) from the prior season by track by run group.  It wasn't a surprise to see that the most incident occurred in white on the last session of the weekend.

What was even more ironic was that the last session of the event was 30 minutes long (they ran at least 1 30-min session per day).  I guess it shows that drivers start to get tired by the end of the event.

It was my understanding that the same safety talk (and classrooms, too) was given to Green, Blue and White.

[catchacab]

They gave the blue students the same talk at the Glen. 

Since they have the data that there are more offs and spins later in the day, we can suspect that it may be due to the driver not being aware of his level of fatigue.  It would make more sense to have the last run of the day the shortest, and make the earlier runs longer.

 

[Mark Fox]

It wasn't a surprise to see that the most incident occurred in white on the last session of the weekend.

Steve, you know the name..........."Wild White."  You are ready to leave the inconsistency of that group.

Since they have the data that there are more offs and spins later in the day, we can suspect that it may be due to the driver not being aware of his level of fatigue.  It would make more sense to have the last run of the day the shortest, and make the earlier runs longer.

Cashcab, Excellent point.  It is like skiing, you have to be very careful and ski within yourself toward the end of the day.   

I wonder if potomac looked at the time elapsed between the second and third run.  With them I have experienced a three hour down time with the first hour taking place over lunch.  At 3:00 I was running for coffee. 

There is a condition called post prandial depression (drop in systolic BP) and  hypoglycemia as insulin draws glucose out of your blood.  This can be worse depending if you ate all carbs at lunch.  The end result is you feel lethargic and sleepy, not at your best for you or anyone else on the track.   I usually snack on fruit and balance bars (40-30-30 design) and soy protein drinks to avoid this condition.  But three hours of down time is ridiculous.

IMHO 3 runs per day fails to allow for sufficient insurance against  the potential of your run getting black flagged,( which happens frequently in upper groups) bad weather and car problems resulting in a lot of time and money being wasted and no track time.

[Darren]

bobt993 wrote:

I think NASA has expounded properly on escape routes by driving the inside/outside of the track.

I've done a couple of "drills" during DE with other clubs that were both fun and beneficial. One was a session where we drove on one side of the track -- normal DE, passing with signals, etc...but staying left of center all the way around the track. 1/2 session left, 1/2 right. This gave the opportunity to look at the track from a different perspective and get used to driving off-line.

Another great drill that I did last year was a NO-BRAKE DE session. Wow that was a lot of fun -- I had Ian in the car with me which helped me get a lot out of that drill. It's amazing just how fast you can go around a track without touching the brakes. This was at the Glen in my 996, and I was still up in the 110+ mph range (too chicken to go faster than that with no brakes . This drill was about corner entry speed, and not over-braking. You have to use the engine to brake, which also takes some knowledge of how high you will rev when you downshift.

Just my own constructive criticism -- DE in general does very well at teaching people how to drive fast on-line -- I think a lot of people don't learn how to drive well off-line (or in the dirt), which could be a problem if they get into trouble.

At Pocono North earlier this year with RTR, it was raining like CRAZY and there were 3 cars on the track in black (they let black out early because NO ONE was out in Red). There was Todd in the Evo, James in the WRX, and me in the Integra. Those guys lapped me a couple of times with the AWD and decent tires -- I was going very slowly, mostly avoiding puddles. I don't understand why more people weren't out there. Todd is one of the best rain drivers I know, and he was still out there practicing.

[fasthonda]

hi darren!!!

i NEVER give up the opportunity to drive in the rain;  last weekend at WGI we had one very wet session, late in the day on Wed;  i took the time to change from my 2 yr old bald RS05s to some unshaved Toyos (this was on the Honda Civic).  it was a pain in the neck, because it was the last session of the day, and i knew they would have to be switched back immediately for the next day, but i never give up the chance to drive in the rain -- it truly is the absolute best driver training!

if a person can drive smoothly and quickly in the rain, he will be VERY quick on a dry track.  my street EVO is very very easy to drive in the rain;  awd, abs, pretty heavy adn stable, and not overly powerful.  stock tires, springs, and pads.  easy easy to drive in the rain!!!!

the honda is a different story;  lots of power (at least, compared to its weight!);  no ABS, very light, very stiff springs, very big rear sway bar.  driving that car fast in the rain demands precision.  and i never give up a chance to practice in it, especially when it rains.

i always strongly encourage my students to go out in the rain;  many won't;  not even when encouraged.  and i don't force it!!!  but it is a shame;  it's the best learning there is!!!

todd

PS  rain is the easiest on the car, by far, too -- tires don't wear;  brakes don't wear much;  and it is very easy on the drivetrain!!!!     :dude: