996 AND 997 coolant fittings

[betegh9]

Would RTR tech consider requiering the coolant fittings to be replaced for these cars that are planned to be used on track events?  I would hate to be driving behind one of those cars on the track when they let loose.

Hmmm?...... isn't that what happened at turn 1, Summit Point this year and Fred Brubaker wound up mowing down some weeds, and I nearly lost it till I went off line?

[Brian Minkin]

Nick,

It is not all 996 and 997.  Just the GT3, GT2 and Turbo. It is a topic that has been discussed by the Tech Comittee and Speed Council. Currently we advise the owners of these cars that the failure is going to happen.  We advise them of the possible solutions and reccomend that they not run coolant in their cars for track events suggesting that Water Wetter is more politcally correct if they have any concern for the saftey of other drivers.

[emayer]

My car hasn't puked (yet), but I share Nick's concerns and have taken the precaution of swapping coolant.  It's one thing to ball up one's own car, but I'd hate to be responsible for others enduring the same fate.  As the 997 series ages I fear this will be an increasing problem.

In the interest of mutual safety, one would hope that owners would take the extra precaution of changing coolant, but as we are all aware that isn't always the case.  There could be a legitimate argument made that for higher run groups coolant be eliminated regardless of vehicle type.  It's an extra nuisance to perform each season but not cost prohibitive.

[Phokaioglaukos]

The leak will come. My street GT3 leaked at the Glen and the cup car at Thunderbolt. It's hassle, and the right fix is to weld the parts--which is not that easy as one piece is much lighter gauge than the other so you need someond good.

The cup cars spec a dilute solution of coolant and water. At Thunderbolt the spillage evaporated rapidly and there was no issue. At the Glen I had the street car spec undiluted coolant and water, and I was lucky that the leak was on pit in and then in the garage.

Those with the true dry sump motors should fix this issue preemptively, or run water only or dilute coolant.

[Terry]

This is a slippery slope. Should we ban 944s? They seem to dump coolant with regularity. Older 911s? Oil return tubes, I forget where else. Personally, I agree with the water/Water Wetter solution and have done so, but the tube welding solution is excessively expensive (R&R motor plus master welder for 8 fittings) for a problem which is not inevitable.

[fasthonda]

hi. I've been behind cars that have suddenly dumped coolant/oil/some mixture thereof. (as you guys know, I race often; DE not quite so often). One of those times was behind a 996 GT3 that had the typical leak described above. Fortunately, I wasn't following too closely (maybe 10 cars back); I saw it start steaming and backed off and ended up going 2 wheels off on the outside, but stayed on track and didn't have any sort of incident (got my heart rate up a lil bit though haha!). another time was at VIR, at the very top of the back straight, just before Rollercoaster; I had been drafting a 944 in my Probe; was probably 3' off his rear bumper, and BANG! entire motor let go and dropped all the water and oil about 2 secs before the brake zone (Even in my Probenstien, we were travelling ~ 125+ mph). To this day, I don't know how I saved that one -- car went completely sideways; crossed up 3 different times, with me trying to whoa it down and not go off sideways at 100+. somehow skated it around the outside on the grass and back down into the pits; I was shaking violently when I pulled in!!! I'm not blaming Porsche in either of those instances; it was just two examples of what can happen (the 944 only had water in its engine; when I race, the requirement is for pure water or water/waterwetter. no coolant. big fine if they catch you with coolant in your car!).

but the most frequent times I have had incidences where I've had to drive through water/coolant/oil have been when vintage racing. this was a month ago at Summit Point, approaching T3; the three of us were battling it out for the lead in Group 2 Vintage (a pair of Ginettas and me in my Lotus Super Seven). apparently a backmarker had blown up his engine entering T3; there was no flag yet, and we all blazed down into it; none of us saw anything on the track. I ended up going 2 wheels off lightly into the gravel; the leader rim shotted his way through, and third place went mega 4 wheels off into the gravel. (you don't ever want to go 4 off sideways into the gravel in one of our vintage sub 1500 lbs cars. they like to roll over when you do that!): https://vimeo.com/55890234 (several different in car cameras used during this clip; it was a short race too haha!). anyway, point I am trying to make is that on track spills will happen; some vehicles are more likely to cause leaks/spills than others. My feeling is that especially in White DE or higher rungroups, no coolant should be allowed. cars are likely to be going faster, travelling in tighter packs, and be more highly modded. highly Modded cars will ALWAYS be more likely to blow up/leak; just my personal observations! one more thing -- perhaps during the classroom sessions, it should be a 'chapter' in teaching to explain what to do in event of a car leaking/blowing up in front of a student -- tell them to keep the car straight; not jump on the brakes; drive it straight off if need be (or guide it around in a rim shot). most students would have no idea what to do, and usually there isn't time for the instructor to say anything other than 'oh shit!'. enjoy the vid clip, and happy new year too!

[betegh9]

Nice video, Todd,

I like the way you integrated various car videos into one clip.  I would be glad to lend you my Smarty Cam, so you have better quality in your car. You could also integrate it to your ECU to record additional things.

[fasthonda]

thanks Nick! I didn't make that vid; the guy (Tom) driving the white Ginetta made it up (I sent him my incar footage from my Lotus). he combined the footage from his white car, and the one of the blue car, along with mine. it really came out neat!

I'm gonna try to get a nice Go Pro or something like it to use this coming year, too. but thanks so much for the offer to loan the Smarty Cam!

oh and the Lotus doesn't have an ECU haha; just a pair of Weber carbs, and a distributor happy new year!

[betegh9]

fasthonda wrote:

thanks Nick! I didn't make that vid; the guy (Tom) driving the white Ginetta made it up (I sent him my incar footage from my Lotus). he combined the footage from his white car, and the one of the blue car, along with mine. it really came out neat!

I'm gonna try to get a nice Go Pro or something like it to use this coming year, too. but thanks so much for the offer to loan the Smarty Cam!

oh and the Lotus doesn't have an ECU haha; just a pair of Weber carbs, and a distributor happy new year!

I know about no ECU. That's probably why the oldies are so reliable.......even for that British car!
Anyway,yes, any car can blow something and puke all over the track, so let's campaign for no antifreeze and no oil! :-)