Harness expiration dates

[larrybard]

I was told (in an informal conversation) at the last membership meeting that someone intended to check with PCA whether they would reconsider their policy of only permitting harnesses to be used for DE for 5 years after their date of manufacture. If that is correct (that there would be a discussion with PCA), can anyone provide an update as to the status of those discussions?

Thank you.
Larry

[ccm911]

Why would one want to use an out of date harness? A car will hit just as hard in DE as it would in a race.

Just sayin.....

[larrybard]

Because I am less sure than you evidently are that 5 years after manufacture the general quality and integrity of a harness has so significantly (and suddenly) deteriorated that it is no longer safe -- and, ironically, that it is impliedly less safe than a car's original 3 point lap and shoulder belt, which (regardless of how ancient) as far as I am aware would continue to satisfy DE technical requirements. (I'm not saying that there might not be other reasons to replace 5 year old harnesses, e.g., if they were involved in any sort of material impact, or if there have been significant safety standard advances in harnesses since the old ones were manufactured.)

[ccm911]

Hey, no offense intended, but if you are worried about the cost of harnesses, which is minimal compared to brakes, gas, hotels, tires...... are you sure DE is a good hobby for you?

[jmr3]

Larry -- I am starting to question your earlier statement

"It should go without saying, but of course I don't want to compromise on quality and safety for the sake of saving a few bucks."

[MylesD55]

Who would want to wear 3 point belts regardless of age or if they satisfy the DE requirments, once you progress to the upper run groups?

I was told that the reason for the limited life span of racing belts is due to the potential damange by UV rays. Yes, the same damage can and will occur to 3 point belts (refer to my first point.)

Remember, most racing belts can be re-webbed by the manufacturer for a lot less than the cost of new belts. I have had mine re-webbed twice.

[ccm911]

As I understand it, three-point belts are verboten in the upper run groups. I would imagine that the forces contorting your body in an impact would far overshadow any degredation of the belt's integrity at that point, if a three-point factory belt were being worn. Hence the need for a five-point harness.

OP - I noticed that you have posted before regarding your search for harnesses. Why so much push-back against what appears to be a pretty fair and straightforward requirement? Do you seriously expect an instructor to risk his or her life by riding in a car with expired belts? Don't use an instructor? Well then you will never advance.

[larrybard]

As I understand it, three-point belts are verboten in the upper run groups.

Don't use an instructor? Well then you will never advance.

1. Maybe I've been looking at a different version of RTR "Safety Tech Info" than you have. The one I found posted on the RTR website does not say that "three-point belts are verboten in the upper run groups." Rather, 5 or 6 point harnesses are "strongly encouraged." (Which is not to say that I disagree in the slightest with RTR -- I have had 6 point harnesses, etc. starting with my entry into green.)

2. I "will never advance" if I don't use an instructor? I guess you're suggesting that all white drivers -- or maybe only me??? -- should have instructors, otherwise they have no hope of advancing to black?

[ccm911]

1. My Bad. But I would never get into a White Group or above vehicle that did not have 5 point harnesses.

2. Yep. Not just you. Everyone. If you think you are going to figure it out on your own, you are sadly mistaken. We have such a great, experienced group of instructors, that it is foolish to not ride a few sessions with an instructor. Very few folks have the ability to advance past the White group without some continuing instruction. In fact, we have a term in skiing for folks that never take lessons - "Terminal Intermediates".

[larrybard]

Larry -- I am starting to question your earlier statement

"It should go without saying, but of course I don't want to compromise on quality and safety for the sake of saving a few bucks."

I prefer to base my decisions on most things on hard facts -- as distinguished from, for example, seemingly arbitrary demarcations, whose underlying logic (if any) is never explained to me. I have no doubt that Myles has made a very valid point, and exposure to UV rays may be harmful. But of course that source of degradation varies considerably -- surely, if that were the only concern, it would be absurd (or at least almost completely arbitrary) to say that a dedicated track car that was garaged throughout the year and outside only for a half dozen DE events should have its harnesses replaced every 5 years solely due to suspected UV damage.

So, assuming there's some demonstrable logic behind the 5 year replacement rule, has anyone seen, and can point me to, any serious studies that convincingly show that after 5 years the integrity of most harnesses has deteriorated so significantly that it was reasonable to use them in the fifth year but not in the sixth? What in the world is the 5 year rule based on? Someone's hunch?