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03-25-2008, 03:58 PM
emayer wrote:
Our military bases have closed around the world and many here in the US. So would you rather have bases shut down in Germany or here?
Vietnam our Allie? I remember Vietnam being a very corrupt country which is how Communism took a foot hold when we came in after the French and drew a line in the sand. We lost tens of thousands of solderers for what? To spread democracy? One of the reasons for lack of public support was there was a draft at the time. If there was one right now there would be people demonstrating in the streets just like in the late 60's. I remember it all to well.......not a pretty time in our country. Let me ask you this, why haven't we invaded Cuba? There only 80 miles of the coast. Why don't we invade North Korea, we know they have nuclear weapons. Whats stopping us? Let's use our brain for a while instead of our fists. Economic sanctions work not over night but they do work.
Bin lidien is laughing in his cave somewhere, I suspect we did exactly what he hoped we would do. We're in the middle of a civil war. In case you didn't know some of our troops are on their third tour. It's the smallest army we have had since 1939. Even John McCane won't keep the troops there long, he may say he will now but if elected he'll have most out within two years.
Demanding reparation is a pipe dream, just tonight on the evening news was reporting that a third to half of Iraqs oil is being stolen.
Quote:nplenzick wrote:Quote:emayer wrote:Quote:
Just a quick check on US military bases shows eighteen in Germany so I do not know what you are referring to. If they closed a few that's just too bad as one was closed a few years back near me and another is about to be closed ( Willow Grove NAS).
Sorry your theory just doesn't hold water, comparing WWI and WW2 to whats going on in Iraq. It's more like comparing apples to oranges. In both World Wars we were drawn into because our allies were attacked by large armies back by country's who were trying to build an empire. What we did in Iraq was invade a country and try to force our way of life (democracy) on them. It's just not going to work. A better comparison would be the Vietnam war.......and we know how that turned out, you think we would have learned a lesson!
The idea that Iraqs oil is somehow going to pay for this war is laughable at best. What makes you think that if and when they ever resume their capable oil production they'll sell it to us cheaper! It will go into the world market which means most will go to China.
My analogy of the US is like a well trained boxer swinging wildly in the ring instead of taking your time and planing a few selected punches for a knock out.
Just playing Devils' advocate here....
No question there is still some US presence in Germany but I would compare both the number of bases and personel to that of 10 years ago. Unquestionably there has been a massive reduction. (Not a bad thing for the US by the way).
You may recall that the US became fully engaged in protecting our Alllies YEARS after both World Wars were underway. I made this point only to indicate that we potentially could have saved lives and financial cost if we had taken a more proactive approach earlier on. "Empire" building did not occur overnight and without our knowledge of its imminent danger. As for Vietnam, were the South Vietnamese not our Allies worthy of protection? Do you think our loss there was a function of the military campaign or political ineptitude here at home?
As for demanding reparation for the cost of the campaign, this kind of activity has been ongoing since the advent of warfare. I do not think the Iraqis should be on the line fully as they did not initiate the war, but by the same token I don't think it's unreasonable to have payback for assiting in infrastructure development, military training, etc. You may recall the infamous UN managed oil for food debacle that benefitted our "Allies" and lined Saddam's pockets at the expense of his people. Do you think our country can do no better than this?
No argument that our true intentions for invading Iraq was a ruse. It remains to be seen what benefits will arise from this, much will not be quanitifiable. It behooves us to do the right thing moving forward to help Iraq establish independence and refocus our efforts here at home as we adroitly discussed earlier.
Our military bases have closed around the world and many here in the US. So would you rather have bases shut down in Germany or here?
Vietnam our Allie? I remember Vietnam being a very corrupt country which is how Communism took a foot hold when we came in after the French and drew a line in the sand. We lost tens of thousands of solderers for what? To spread democracy? One of the reasons for lack of public support was there was a draft at the time. If there was one right now there would be people demonstrating in the streets just like in the late 60's. I remember it all to well.......not a pretty time in our country. Let me ask you this, why haven't we invaded Cuba? There only 80 miles of the coast. Why don't we invade North Korea, we know they have nuclear weapons. Whats stopping us? Let's use our brain for a while instead of our fists. Economic sanctions work not over night but they do work.
Bin lidien is laughing in his cave somewhere, I suspect we did exactly what he hoped we would do. We're in the middle of a civil war. In case you didn't know some of our troops are on their third tour. It's the smallest army we have had since 1939. Even John McCane won't keep the troops there long, he may say he will now but if elected he'll have most out within two years.
Demanding reparation is a pipe dream, just tonight on the evening news was reporting that a third to half of Iraqs oil is being stolen.
Past RTR member