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I would suggest we explore the possibility of a car control course. Set up in an area like autocross only without so restrictive an environment as far as car placement is concerned. Have the cones set up for a loose direction guide only. Not timed. 180 degree changes of direction and 90 degree right and left handers entering at a speed where the car is guaranteed to slide and have the drivers try to keep it under control. Loss of control will be regarded as slides that are unrecoverable and require both feet in. No induced slides because that isn't the object. Going faster and faster without losing control is the name of the game.
When I am teaching a student now I realize that I am keeping them below the limit, sometimes well below. Because the cars we are in are so highly capable we are still going very fast. The more they stay on the line the easier it is to get around quickly. Car control never comes into play. I remember one student who had about 10 DE weekends under his belt and taking him out onto the skidpad at Shenandoah. When his car began to slide he did nothing. I mean nothing, no brakes, no accel, no steering input. I told him to hit the brakes and we slid to a sideways stop. I went over the concept of what we were trying to learn and take away from the skidpad exercise but it made me realize that here was a person that was active in DE but literally had NO car control skills at all. I spent the day watching the skidpad off and on and helping instruct over there and saw that my student wasn't the only one.
I have been in the car with students who slide the car on instinct. I was in a tank slapper at Jefferson and from the right seat I figured there was no possibility of a recovery. He stayed in the gas, kept his eyes down track, pointed the front wheels in the direction we needed to go and proceeded to drive right out of the slide. I didn't teach that. He had only been on a track 4 or 5 times up until then and had only been involved in DE for 8 months.
Not that I can teach it but what it requires is eyes down track because hands follow the eyes. You don't turn into the slide but rather point the front wheels in the direction you need to travel. In an oversteer slide you do not add power but you do not lift either. Either of those actions actually take away from rear grip. When you are in a steady state understeer condition you gently lift and modulate the throttle so as to add grip to the front tires. You can not lift abruptly because grip will be removed from the rear tires and now you've gone from and understeer to an oversteer condition which may happen so quickly you won't react until it's too late. All of this happens in just fractions of seconds. You don't have time to conciously process this information.
I must say it is easier to do in a street tire shod car because grip levels are so much lower. For Dad's car I will not run R comp tires again. I have chosen some extremely good street tires so that he will get used to sliding the car in the dry and the speeds will be reduced so hopefully the results will not be so grave when he makes a mistake. It will also continue to be great practice for me sliding the car in every corner of every lap for the entire session. All the while training my brain, my body and all of my sensory inputs to recognize slides and car attitudes so that I instinctively make the proper adjustments and corrections.
This is what I mean when I talk about car control
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqposOecvkw
This is what I mean by a car being driven far below it's capabilities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoIYkQHfUbE
When I am teaching a student now I realize that I am keeping them below the limit, sometimes well below. Because the cars we are in are so highly capable we are still going very fast. The more they stay on the line the easier it is to get around quickly. Car control never comes into play. I remember one student who had about 10 DE weekends under his belt and taking him out onto the skidpad at Shenandoah. When his car began to slide he did nothing. I mean nothing, no brakes, no accel, no steering input. I told him to hit the brakes and we slid to a sideways stop. I went over the concept of what we were trying to learn and take away from the skidpad exercise but it made me realize that here was a person that was active in DE but literally had NO car control skills at all. I spent the day watching the skidpad off and on and helping instruct over there and saw that my student wasn't the only one.
I have been in the car with students who slide the car on instinct. I was in a tank slapper at Jefferson and from the right seat I figured there was no possibility of a recovery. He stayed in the gas, kept his eyes down track, pointed the front wheels in the direction we needed to go and proceeded to drive right out of the slide. I didn't teach that. He had only been on a track 4 or 5 times up until then and had only been involved in DE for 8 months.
Not that I can teach it but what it requires is eyes down track because hands follow the eyes. You don't turn into the slide but rather point the front wheels in the direction you need to travel. In an oversteer slide you do not add power but you do not lift either. Either of those actions actually take away from rear grip. When you are in a steady state understeer condition you gently lift and modulate the throttle so as to add grip to the front tires. You can not lift abruptly because grip will be removed from the rear tires and now you've gone from and understeer to an oversteer condition which may happen so quickly you won't react until it's too late. All of this happens in just fractions of seconds. You don't have time to conciously process this information.
I must say it is easier to do in a street tire shod car because grip levels are so much lower. For Dad's car I will not run R comp tires again. I have chosen some extremely good street tires so that he will get used to sliding the car in the dry and the speeds will be reduced so hopefully the results will not be so grave when he makes a mistake. It will also continue to be great practice for me sliding the car in every corner of every lap for the entire session. All the while training my brain, my body and all of my sensory inputs to recognize slides and car attitudes so that I instinctively make the proper adjustments and corrections.
This is what I mean when I talk about car control
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqposOecvkw
This is what I mean by a car being driven far below it's capabilities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoIYkQHfUbE