Car Control-How is it taught?

[Racingswh]

From reading about your WG slippery track experience Bob it makes me realize that it can't really be taught.  If you were a guy who did 3 to 4 track events a year in a competent car with high corner speeds that you drive near the limit but never over then you would have crashed under those same circumstances. 

You strive to go quick and are driving the car at its limits as often as you reasonably can lap after lap.  You desire to figure out ways to go faster and that requires you to drive your car on and over the limit of traction more often. 

You certainly aren't the driver I am thinking about.  Nor is Todd, Darren, Tom or anyone else at that level.   

Rain driving is good for people that already have some level of skill pertaining to car control.  To those that have no skill set in that regard it can be dangerous.  I think car control at a DE event is best learned at forgiving tracks.  Not ones like the Glen where walls are close.   I like the looks of the NJMP tracks as good places to learn car control. 

A driver has to want to learn car control.  They must drive outside their comfort zone so they can become familiar with the handling characteristics of their car. 

 Well, back to work now. 

 

[bobt993]

Sorry, not sure I helped with that one, but I do think skidpad with an instructor is the best place to learn along with AX.  I think a WET AX course would be an excellent test and should be incorporated in the program.  One event we did in Europe was the avoidance course that Volvo has near the Nurburgring.  It has an enormous skidpad with water jets that produce a huge wall in a second for you to avoid.  I wish something like that was around here.  First year I tried the course, it took two runs to get the hang of it.  After driving a 911, I went back and never missed a correction or hit a water wall.  Tail happy car on a skidpad is my vote for learning car control.

[opus]

Doesn't NJMP plan calls for a skid pad?  Does anyone know what the status of that skid pad?  If it is up and running, it would be helpful to have events there.

Also, would go-karting be good for learning skid control skills?

[Darren]

Racingswh wrote:

From reading about your WG slippery track experience Bob it makes me realize that it can't really be taught. If you were a guy who did 3 to 4 track events a year in a competent car with high corner speeds that you drive near the limit but never over then you would have crashed under those same circumstances.

Rain driving is good for people that already have some level of skill pertaining to car control. To those that have no skill set in that regard it can be dangerous.

It's a good discusssion and the questions are almost as valuable as the answers. Being interested in these questions shows a lot of understanding, both for you and people reading.

We're always going to knock it down a notch for DE because we want everyone to be safe and have fun. The Green group drivers are easier for instructors in the rain (I think) because they are going slower. It's more difficult to instruct the people that are faster in blue/white because things happen much faster. So I disagree, I think it's more challenging the more knowledge you get! The bottom line is step it down and approach the limits very slowly. If you exceed them by 1 mph, probably not dangerous. If you exceed them 10 mph in the rain, probably a much bigger issue.

But this is why DE is a great way to learn also -- we're not worried about lap times, you can learn at your own pace, and no one should feel pushed to go faster. I don't understand some people saying they won't drive a certain track, or in the wet, because if you feel uneasy just step it down, who cares?

The tendency is, esp in the Porsche club, is that most of us want to get promoted and go faster. That is the wrong philosophy for what we do. If that is how someone honestly feels, that they want to be the fastest, then talk to me or one of the other racers and we can talk about racing programs to go fast -- like Glen is getting into.

DE is about safe fun (go ahead Bob, pass me I'm slow I don't care)

Racing is about aggression! (grr, my apex Todd!!!! I might even hit you!)

No doubt racing is what makes the fastest guys faster.

[ninjabones]

For those of you going to VIR, there is a great skid-pad there.  Last year a few guys just turned on the sprinklers and went to town for quite a long time.  Not sure if it was condoned/legal, but they did it and nobody batted an eye.  Maybe Tom Z will be able to get the official word on whether you guys can play on the skid pad while you're down there.

[Darren]

Brian Minkin wrote:

I thought about your question for a bit and for me it was Autocross

Actually, for me it was when Brian oiled down the whole lap on-line at Thunderbolt, almost took me out

[betegh9]

bobt993 wrote:

Sorry, not sure I helped with that one, but I do think skidpad with an instructor is the best place to learn along with AX. I think a WET AX course would be an excellent test and should be incorporated in the program.

+1

Oh! Lets get the AX Chair to rent a cheap lot somewhere and set up a couple of skidpads. One with water sprikled by a local fire company and one dry. We can donate some $$$ to the fire company.

Can someone set up a survey of how many people would be willing (truly willing) to participate is such an exercise? I am internet challenged........hock::?:?

[Brian Minkin]

Darren wrote:

Actually, for me it was when Brian oiled down the whole lap on-line at Thunderbolt, almost took me out

Antifreeze at Summit Point comes to mind as well. Black Ice while going down a steep hill was easier to control. If memory serves me right I ended up on the grass just after turn 3.

[AMoore]

Darren wrote:

Brian Minkin wrote:

I thought about your question for a bit and for me it was Autocross

Actually, for me it was when Brian oiled down the whole lap on-line at Thunderbolt, almost took me out

Good thing we were going slow, I had to drive with my head out the window in order to see since my windshied was smeared with oil.hock:

[michael lang]

Darren, in my opinion you summarized the whole DE philosophy very well. DE is a great place to learn and we get to do that at our own pace with what we are comfortable with while having fun the whole time. Getting promoted into the next run group is nice but it's really just a category that a driver is put into based on a number of factors. Sometimes they are correctly placed, others they are not. I can tell you and everyone else participating at an event that I push my comfort zone a little farther each time when I'm on the track but my #1 goal each event I go to is to have my car sitting in my garage on Sunday evening in the same shape it was on Friday. I take advantage of every tool the event has to offer, all the in car instruction, the conversation with the instructors in-between sessions, everything. I would like to thank every instructor that has spent time with me for sharing their knowledge, it has kept me safe and given me the confidence to stretch my comfort zone each time I have been on track.