Controversial??

[ccm911]

Marty Kocse wrote:

Obviously, you have never driven at a DE event...

Why don't you try it sometime, then tell us what you think.

Now come, here. He is not saying one is better than the other. He is saying that the two can peacefully co-exist. In fact, everyone should have to start in autocross. It teaches good car control.

[Marty Kocse]

I agree with that totally.  They both have their own unique attributes.  I know I enjoy both.  And yes, everyone should start with car control at auto-x, then graduate to the track...  jk.

Peace out.

[Wally]

Come on everyone, loosen up the sphincter.  Most of us DE guys have our roots in

AX.  Thirty years ago we called it sprinting, and had an event every weekend.  Some

of us "evolved" and enjoy DE more.  The skills and values of  good driving are to be

learned at auto-crosses, but there is a limit to how much fun can be had for some of

us.  My enjoyment at auto-crossing comes from helping Brian design the course and

working the event.  To paraphrase Sophie Tucker, "Ive auto-crossed and I've done

DE,  DE is more fun!":dude: 

[Wellardmac]

As Chris said, you should read my post again. I think I clearly said that there was a place for both and that they enrich each other.

Some do not do AX and some do not DE. Each to their own, but there's really no place for saying one is inferior to the other.

[Brian Minkin]

Okay, time to add my two cents.  AX is a great way to learn car control and begins to teach you the limits of your car.  I strongly recommend that any one considering starting in DE do some AX events.  However the skills required to drive safely at speed on a road course take far more training and practice than becoming proficient at AX.  Leave Nascar out of the picture for the time being but I will say that I do have a great deal of respect for them as well after having driven the Tri Oval at Pocono.  AX is fun, safe and even for the most competitive drivers has very little risk of stuffing your car if you make a mistake.  Driving at speed on a road course is full of risk and requires a vast array of learned skills.  Like AX you get faster with seat time and practice but it takes much more time to get fast.  On a road course the level of concentration, smoothness and consistency are much more intense then AX and the price you pay for a mistake is very large.  Taking those road course skills back to AX will make you a fairly fast AX driver if can stay on course.  Both events have their place in a car clubs activities and I believe that doing both even after a person has transitioned to DE will make you a better driver at both AX and DE.  Seat time and the continual training of your senses are priceless.

[betegh9]

When you design a course with ALL the million cones available, making it like a cattle shoot, and have other DE guys get lost on the "1st or 2nd gate", there must be something wrong with the course designershock: AND THE DE DRIVER.
In reality, too many cones do not aid a driver ed driver, because all they see is a sea of cones. Track guys have to keep going around and around all day so they can memorize the course on the track.
So, OK. You say that AXers have ADHD, but you, and specifically YOU, and everybody knows who I am talking about, have such a LOSS of memory, that you have to keep on repeating the same moves over and over AND OVER AGAIN. You need a paved path to the magic kingdom

[Wally]

Please, read you 6:48 post again.  I do not want to start a pissing contest.  Everything was tongue-in cheek.  Your post has a ring of superiority to it by over stating the skill required to auto-cross.  I agree, everyone should start with auto-

crossing to learn vehicle control.  It is obvious you have never been on the track

with your comment about concentration on the oval.  Not being a fan of NASCAR my-self, I have a profound respect for their driving after going around Pocono in the

bowl in excess of 140 mph.  Remember, make a mistake at an auto-cross, you have

a smudge on your car, make a mistake at a DE event, you could be a smudge of the

wall.  I have AXed and DEed the last thirty years, and have equal respect and

appreciation for both.

 

 

[Wellardmac]

Whether I track or not is 100% irrelevant. Focus on the facts, they're the only things that are relevant to any conversation.

My post does not have an air of superiority. If you choose to interpret it that way and I have no control over that.

My post stated the facts, nothing else. I'm a no frill "only the facts" kinda guy. I didn't make fun of DE or AX, I didn't insult drivers of either sport in fact I stated that they're best when done together and result in better drivers.

Lighten up.

[betegh9]

Wally,
I have done track events, average of 2 per year for the last 14 years, but obviously not with you, which may be unfortunate
I have also been AX chair for the club a number of years ago, and now I am trying to get people (guys and gals) to get more interest in the AX program. The sport had been let go by different circumstances, and by using this forum, I'd like to touch the nerves of just 10% of the members to want to challange themselves, or me in season of AX events.
Just so that you know, I managed to bring the AX program into profitability when I was Chair.:dude:

[betegh9]

Wellardmac!
I think that Wally was talking to me