additional debate over health care reform

[emayer]

nplenzick wrote:

emayer wrote:

Sorry for the delayed response, been away.

Actually, I spend alot of time in both countries. No question, America is superior though! I point out the reflector system used there because it makes more sense. Again, I'm not against the concept at all, but if you take a ride on this particular road you'll see that it wasn't implemented well and is a waste of resources. Sounds like Flagler county Florida did a better job of this. Brings up a reasonable question, shouldn't all this be standardized?

Here's the location for any doubters out there:

Easton Road, Hellertown PA. Follow this in the direction (East) toward Riegelsville and you'll see my point. (Hopefully).

After a bad morning I decided to take the afternoon off and check out this highway of reflector hell and here's what I found; All sections of this road that had a guardrail needed it. It was installed to protect from the very steep drop off that was near the roadway. That drop off was anywhere from 6' - 10' below the roadway and in many case's there was a small stream flowing in it. The guardrail was not continuous but ran for short sections of which the longest was about 200 yards. The reflectors where mounted to the posts with epoxy and were spaced 16' - 20' apart, not 5'. The reflectors appear to be of high quality, easily manufactured, economical and extremely easy to install. ALL sections of this road that had this guardrail needed it, and I would have to compliment on a job well done Pendott!

The next time you bitch about something you might want to dig a little deeper first. Anyone who wishes to see some photo's send me a PM, I tried to post them here but my file size is to large.

Sorry you had a bad morning, had we timed this better you could have at least stopped by for a beer. I thought of posting pics from the reflection at night, but at speed where the effect of this is appreciated, it is not safe to do. Nick, I suggest carefully rereading my comments. I am NOT saying the reflectors are unnecessary, I am saying that the number placed is excessive and is a resource that could have been used elsewhere too. The speed limit is 55 mph on that road, markers placed at twice the installed distance would still suffice. If you looked closer, you may have noticed additional reflectors on the sides of the guardrails also, though further spaced.

To answer an earlier question you posed, the greatest number of incidents on that road involve vehicle strikes with deer. There was one fatality involving a motorist who ran the intersection. Shall we place reflectors on deer also? (I'm kidding BTW.)

Frankly, the remaining dialogue on this post is far more fruitful and whether you agree with me on this matter or not, it won't be difficult at all to find other areas of government waste. Only a foolish Kool-Aid drinker would dispute this point.

[APXD 30]

Raw data about healthcare for the number crunchers among us:

$940,000,000,000/10 years

$94,000,000,000/year to insure 32,000,000= $2,937.50 redistributed to each newly covered American each year.    They pay for this by 1) raising taxes on interest and dividend income, 2) new taxes on evil pharma, medical device, and medical insurance companies, and 3) single filers earning >$200M/yr or joint filer >$250M/yr.

How is this not socialism again?    What is the incentive to work hard, do better for your family, or innovate in your industry?   Not to mention the poor retirees who saved for their retirement.

[larrybard]

AMoore wrote:

Education is not addressed in the Constitution, however, rights are not limited to those inalianable rights identified by the founders, or the words of our Constitution. Rights can be bestowed upon people in a democratic society.

Seems to me that alone says worlds about how you have viewed the issues. No need to be encumbered by what the Constitution says, or am I misreading your statement?

[emayer]

LOL-  Larry, you hit it on the head!

The Constitution is just getting in our way, so we'll just change it.  Rather than bestowing rights upon the people (which we already had under the Constitution) it appears as though the government is taking more rights for itself!

Josh, if your math is correct that works out to roughly 12k per family of 4 yearly for a plan with delayed implementation.  Doesn't sound like there's any real savings there when compared to purchasing insurance privately.  Hmm.

[APXD 30]

emayer wrote:

Josh, if your math is correct that works out to roughly 12k per family of 4 yearly for a plan with delayed implementation. Doesn't sound like there's any real savings there when compared to purchasing insurance privately. Hmm.

It depends on the lens that you use Eric. If you are receiving something, then it's free and a big savings to you. It's been a couple of weeks but I believe it is entirely free to family of 4 earning <$44,400 and pro rated until phased out for families of 4 at $80k.

Redistribution plan and simple.

[AMoore]

larrybard wrote:

AMoore wrote: [quote]Education is not addressed in the Constitution, however, rights are not limited to those inalianable rights identified by the founders, or the words of our Constitution. Rights can be bestowed upon people in a democratic society.

Seems to me that alone says worlds about how you have viewed the issues. No need to be encumbered by what the Constitution says, or am I misreading your statement?
[/quote
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I'm not sure I understand your point. Do you actually believe that the only rights we have are those specifically enumerated in the Constitution that was drafted in 1789 and supplemented periodically thereafter? If your asking if that is what I believe the answer is no. Nor am I a strict constructionist. Nonetheless, if you believe that health care is a state issue being pushed through under the commerce clause, OK, so why would it be any better as a state program, by which someone like Mitt Romney taxes the haves for the benefit of the have nots.

Does hc reform fall under the commerce clause? Did civil rights legislation? Perhaps the commerce clause was just an excuse to give the fed government more authority over what were perceived as backward states. How will hc reform be perceived in 50 years? How was the emancipation proclamation perceived in 1863? How was civil rights legislation perceived in 1965? How was social security legislation perceived when it was enacted under FDR.

700 billion dollars per year in our defense budget? Compare that to the cost of health care reform - better yet compare that to the cost of not repairing the health care crisis?

Again for the 5th time - please comment on my repeated statement. We are all socialists to an extent?

[emayer]

Refresh my memory.  Was any of the aforementioned landmark legislation passed under the reconciliation process?  Does the symbolic election of a Republican Senator in a State held by the Dems for more than 30 years largely in response to the health care legislation not represent a clear signal as to the overall will of the people?

Any form of governance implies some element of socialism by definition.  The real question is to what degree government is to manage our daily lives.  Our Constitution differs from other countries as it takes a minimalist approach in an attempt to decentralize.  Though not flawless, history proves that the concept worked.  With time, we have drifted increasingly away from that principle, the mood now complacent and entitled as a result of America's success.

[emayer]

Worth a look:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-hal...3.html?x=0

[JoeP]

...that is why we should have a flat tax, on gross income, for all taxpayers - even corporations.  No deductions whatsoever.  Let's see how true capitalism works.  

[ccm911]

APXD 30 wrote:

How is this not socialism again? What is the incentive to work hard, do better for your family, or innovate in your industry? Not to mention the poor retirees who saved for their retirement.

Come on Josh, we are not talking about giving away Bentley's here.

Just trying to ensure health care for all. And yes, while this first step is not by any means perfect, it could always be more finely tuned to provide benefits at lower costs.

By the way, how much is the cost up to on that illegal/unethical war in Iraq?