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09-24-2006, 05:43 PM
Chris,
Many street insurers exclude all track events for their coverages. There are some street insurers that do have coverage for track events. These insurers either feel their overall financial exposure is not increased for DE events due to overall improved driver skill, or may just have higher premiums to cover these expenses. I don’t have the data to back this up I have repeatedly heard that an incident per mile of track time in DE is less than that of the street.
What are your definitions of unnecessary chances: Is it altering you line slightly changing your throttle or brake modulation? Increasing or decreasing your speed, acceleration or deceleration on a section of the track? Changing your braking point?
Track insurance usually has a deductible of 20% . Take one of those fancy 997’s at a price of $90K, that is a deductible of $18K. That is a pretty hefty chunk of change for me. I don’t feel that American Collectors decision to drop DE insurance will affect the driving styles of many DE participants.
I feel that all of us try to drive safely, but there is an inherent danger in our leisurely pursuit. If we can agree we drive on the street at 20-30% of our driving skill, with a rare brief increase due to an unexpected situation, any prolonged driving experience at any level above 3/10 increases the level of an unintended outcome. The unintended outcome can come from driver error, mechanical failure, or an unexpected change in the track.
We need to clarify what you define as “activity�? in your article. Is it vehicular damage, on off track excursion (from 1 to 4 wheels off, with out damage), the line not being perfectly adhered to, a breaking point and/or turn in point missed, the car exceeding the slip angle, experiencing under or over steer. Keep in mind the same off in many turns at Summit Point or on the infield of Pocono that doesn’t result in damage, can result in severe damage at many turns at the Glen.
Car to car contact in breaking zones is possible. As a friend and instructor (he has been driving on track for about 24 years, has taught many of our current instructors, and is respected by most of the more mature instructors) said at Summit after punting a car into the gravel (in the red group) “Who put the stop sign up at turn one?�?
I haven’t wrecked yet. It may happen and I unwillingly accept that. While I was a “Green�? driver, I had the following experiences. At the Glen with NNJR in the rain exiting turn 2 and entering turn 3, I lost traction on my front wheels while driving at a relatively slow speed I hydroplaned through a stream crossing the track (had to change my underwear after that one). I spun and went off track in turn 5 at Mid Ohio with Potomac, because I lifted as I approached track out. The turn is an uphill left hander that transitions to a down hill about 15 feet before track out. Then the following day I went off straight at the same turn. All were my error, and I had an instructor in the car with me. I was fortunate that there was plenty of run off room. A month ago I put my two front wheels off in turn five at Summit, when my front left wheel locked up (my new track car is supposed to have ABS, (failed servo in the ABS pump). I take responsibility for that one too. I learned from all of my experiences.
Any increase in speed above what we experience legally on the street fro a rookie DE student even on street tires and brakes can lead to an unexpected outcome. A few years ago I was watching one of those police chase shows. The police were chasing a Toyota at about 90 mph on a California freeway. The Toyota attempted to take an exit ramp from the middle lane. He put on his brakes and turned right. He wound up in the guard rail about 75 feet before the exit. My point is most drivers and this includes track newbies do not understand the dynamics involved in higher speed car control. How can this be taught? In a class room, with video, on a skid pad, during AX and on the track. The tracks we go to need to construct facilities other than the track itself to teach threshold breaking, heel/toe, throttle steer, correct use of ABS, and under/over steer. Even with this training things do happen, drivers make errors and track conditions change. I have attended two professional driving schools that taught what I have just described. This winter I would like to attend either a stunt driving school or an ice driving school to learn how to regain control of an out of control vehicle.
I am not the best driver, in fact I fell I have a lot to learn and experience. When I am on the track I am there to have fun and learn about my car, driving and car control. I incrementally increase my comfort envelope. This does not make me the fastest driver, but keeps me happy. What keeps me coming back and many of our colleagues is the excitement of danger and the challenge to do it better than before.
When one is on the track always have respect. Respect yourself, your limits, your instructor (if you have one), your car and its limits, your fellow drivers, the track, our region and its many volunteers who make these opportunities available for us and the corner workers.
I feel there is a problem. It is not with our DE program which is excellent!!! The problem lies in the cars many are driving. Many are too powerful, have too many electronics to cover up mistakes, which would have been recognized in other vehicles. Some cars are so advance that they almost drive themselves. The newer cars are basically just too good for a beginning driver.
Chris, I look forward to your reply. I know discussion can help our membership.
More to follow,
Eric
Many street insurers exclude all track events for their coverages. There are some street insurers that do have coverage for track events. These insurers either feel their overall financial exposure is not increased for DE events due to overall improved driver skill, or may just have higher premiums to cover these expenses. I don’t have the data to back this up I have repeatedly heard that an incident per mile of track time in DE is less than that of the street.
What are your definitions of unnecessary chances: Is it altering you line slightly changing your throttle or brake modulation? Increasing or decreasing your speed, acceleration or deceleration on a section of the track? Changing your braking point?
Track insurance usually has a deductible of 20% . Take one of those fancy 997’s at a price of $90K, that is a deductible of $18K. That is a pretty hefty chunk of change for me. I don’t feel that American Collectors decision to drop DE insurance will affect the driving styles of many DE participants.
I feel that all of us try to drive safely, but there is an inherent danger in our leisurely pursuit. If we can agree we drive on the street at 20-30% of our driving skill, with a rare brief increase due to an unexpected situation, any prolonged driving experience at any level above 3/10 increases the level of an unintended outcome. The unintended outcome can come from driver error, mechanical failure, or an unexpected change in the track.
We need to clarify what you define as “activity�? in your article. Is it vehicular damage, on off track excursion (from 1 to 4 wheels off, with out damage), the line not being perfectly adhered to, a breaking point and/or turn in point missed, the car exceeding the slip angle, experiencing under or over steer. Keep in mind the same off in many turns at Summit Point or on the infield of Pocono that doesn’t result in damage, can result in severe damage at many turns at the Glen.
Car to car contact in breaking zones is possible. As a friend and instructor (he has been driving on track for about 24 years, has taught many of our current instructors, and is respected by most of the more mature instructors) said at Summit after punting a car into the gravel (in the red group) “Who put the stop sign up at turn one?�?
I haven’t wrecked yet. It may happen and I unwillingly accept that. While I was a “Green�? driver, I had the following experiences. At the Glen with NNJR in the rain exiting turn 2 and entering turn 3, I lost traction on my front wheels while driving at a relatively slow speed I hydroplaned through a stream crossing the track (had to change my underwear after that one). I spun and went off track in turn 5 at Mid Ohio with Potomac, because I lifted as I approached track out. The turn is an uphill left hander that transitions to a down hill about 15 feet before track out. Then the following day I went off straight at the same turn. All were my error, and I had an instructor in the car with me. I was fortunate that there was plenty of run off room. A month ago I put my two front wheels off in turn five at Summit, when my front left wheel locked up (my new track car is supposed to have ABS, (failed servo in the ABS pump). I take responsibility for that one too. I learned from all of my experiences.
Any increase in speed above what we experience legally on the street fro a rookie DE student even on street tires and brakes can lead to an unexpected outcome. A few years ago I was watching one of those police chase shows. The police were chasing a Toyota at about 90 mph on a California freeway. The Toyota attempted to take an exit ramp from the middle lane. He put on his brakes and turned right. He wound up in the guard rail about 75 feet before the exit. My point is most drivers and this includes track newbies do not understand the dynamics involved in higher speed car control. How can this be taught? In a class room, with video, on a skid pad, during AX and on the track. The tracks we go to need to construct facilities other than the track itself to teach threshold breaking, heel/toe, throttle steer, correct use of ABS, and under/over steer. Even with this training things do happen, drivers make errors and track conditions change. I have attended two professional driving schools that taught what I have just described. This winter I would like to attend either a stunt driving school or an ice driving school to learn how to regain control of an out of control vehicle.
I am not the best driver, in fact I fell I have a lot to learn and experience. When I am on the track I am there to have fun and learn about my car, driving and car control. I incrementally increase my comfort envelope. This does not make me the fastest driver, but keeps me happy. What keeps me coming back and many of our colleagues is the excitement of danger and the challenge to do it better than before.
When one is on the track always have respect. Respect yourself, your limits, your instructor (if you have one), your car and its limits, your fellow drivers, the track, our region and its many volunteers who make these opportunities available for us and the corner workers.
I feel there is a problem. It is not with our DE program which is excellent!!! The problem lies in the cars many are driving. Many are too powerful, have too many electronics to cover up mistakes, which would have been recognized in other vehicles. Some cars are so advance that they almost drive themselves. The newer cars are basically just too good for a beginning driver.
Chris, I look forward to your reply. I know discussion can help our membership.
More to follow,
Eric
friend /frɛnd/
–noun
1. a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.
2. a person who gives assistance; patron; supporter: friends of the Boston Symphony.
3. a person who is on good terms with another; a perso
–noun
1. a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.
2. a person who gives assistance; patron; supporter: friends of the Boston Symphony.
3. a person who is on good terms with another; a perso
hock:.
I've driven with many regions and RTR is dam good.