09-24-2009, 11:01 PM
JoeP wrote:
Joe, you are both a candidate and a member, and I note that this discussion started only after you became a candidate. I view several of your statements on this forum to be intemperate and inflammatory. Nevertheless I will reply to your three points extracted above (the full text of your message remains in your post, of course).
1. I could not get back for the meeting on the 23d, but from the accounts I have heard it was not a completely polite and productive meeting. I think our President was very surprised at some of what transpired. The solution is not to re-adopt Roberts Rules of Order, however. I'm guessing that neither you nor many others reading this have actually participated in a meeting under those rules (I'll guarantee you that ARCO did not run its shareholder meetings that way). I have used Roberts Rules of Order, in a student congress national competition. It was great fun to tie up that body with all sorts of motions, some taking precedence over others, but it is not a way to get anything accomplished. Were our Club to have those rules again either of two things would occur, we'd ignore them (as we did in the past) or a minority of members could tie the meeting up in knots. The PA statute has a more common sense approach: the president shall preside at member meetings, shall determine the order of business and shall have the authority to establish rules for the conduct of the meeting that are fair to the members. Pretty simple and it's right in the statute. Could we repeat that in the bylaws? Sure, but we don't need to. Might our members think some other rules do or should apply? I suppose, but what could be better than that rule?
2. The PCA national bylaws you attach have fooled you. They say "[size=3]The Executive Council, Board of Directors, or active and/or family active members in good standing constituting at least 3% of the then membership, of which not more than one-third shall be members of any one Region, may propose amendments to these Bylaws." [size=2]You tell me we have more than 100,000 members. What do you think the cost would be to collect 3,000 signatures, no more than 1,000 of them from any one region? Do you seriously think that provision is the same as one person standing up in the meeting last Wednesday and proposing to amend the bylaws? Do you seriously think only the members who happened to attend that meeting should have a say and the 1,200+ members who were not there would find out about it after the fact?[/size][/size]
[size=3][size=2]3. I'm not really sure what you suggest in your third point. It may be that this is just a campaign position, or it may be that you really are serious about denying the Board the power to amend the operating rules of the Club. That could be a good discussion and I will be happy to have it, after October 25th, regardless of who wins. If the Board amends the bylaws to clarify that the new board takes office on January 1st, I'll be happy to work with you and the newly elected board as Secretary from October 26 to December 31 to plan revisions to the bylaws and Club policies whether or not you are elected. If the Board does not amend the bylaws to make that clarification I'll be happy to work with you and the new Board either as continuing Secretary or as a Club member only.[/size][/size]
[size=3][size=2]My expectation is that these "issues" have arisen largely because we have a contested election. We have monthly member meetings all across the Club's geographic area and only now, 11 months after we gave the Board the power to amend the bylaws and months after it did so the first time do we have some excitement.
[/size][/size]
Quote:[size=2]Chris:[/b] I am not commenting as a candidate, but as a Riesentöter member. [/size]
...
Quote:1) Please add your expert opinion, but it seems that only our Bylaws and PNCL are legally binding. So, if Bylaws do not specifically incorporate Rogers, parliamentary, or national PCA procedures, they do not apply. ...
Quote:
2) I absolutely support Membership votes from the floor unless our Bylaws define another process. ... I have attached the “Amendment of Bylaws�? provision from the national PCA. ...
3) With regard to Bylaw changes, I object to any notification requirements for Membership that are not required for the Board. ...
Joe, you are both a candidate and a member, and I note that this discussion started only after you became a candidate. I view several of your statements on this forum to be intemperate and inflammatory. Nevertheless I will reply to your three points extracted above (the full text of your message remains in your post, of course).
1. I could not get back for the meeting on the 23d, but from the accounts I have heard it was not a completely polite and productive meeting. I think our President was very surprised at some of what transpired. The solution is not to re-adopt Roberts Rules of Order, however. I'm guessing that neither you nor many others reading this have actually participated in a meeting under those rules (I'll guarantee you that ARCO did not run its shareholder meetings that way). I have used Roberts Rules of Order, in a student congress national competition. It was great fun to tie up that body with all sorts of motions, some taking precedence over others, but it is not a way to get anything accomplished. Were our Club to have those rules again either of two things would occur, we'd ignore them (as we did in the past) or a minority of members could tie the meeting up in knots. The PA statute has a more common sense approach: the president shall preside at member meetings, shall determine the order of business and shall have the authority to establish rules for the conduct of the meeting that are fair to the members. Pretty simple and it's right in the statute. Could we repeat that in the bylaws? Sure, but we don't need to. Might our members think some other rules do or should apply? I suppose, but what could be better than that rule?
2. The PCA national bylaws you attach have fooled you. They say "[size=3]The Executive Council, Board of Directors, or active and/or family active members in good standing constituting at least 3% of the then membership, of which not more than one-third shall be members of any one Region, may propose amendments to these Bylaws." [size=2]You tell me we have more than 100,000 members. What do you think the cost would be to collect 3,000 signatures, no more than 1,000 of them from any one region? Do you seriously think that provision is the same as one person standing up in the meeting last Wednesday and proposing to amend the bylaws? Do you seriously think only the members who happened to attend that meeting should have a say and the 1,200+ members who were not there would find out about it after the fact?[/size][/size]
[size=3][size=2]3. I'm not really sure what you suggest in your third point. It may be that this is just a campaign position, or it may be that you really are serious about denying the Board the power to amend the operating rules of the Club. That could be a good discussion and I will be happy to have it, after October 25th, regardless of who wins. If the Board amends the bylaws to clarify that the new board takes office on January 1st, I'll be happy to work with you and the newly elected board as Secretary from October 26 to December 31 to plan revisions to the bylaws and Club policies whether or not you are elected. If the Board does not amend the bylaws to make that clarification I'll be happy to work with you and the new Board either as continuing Secretary or as a Club member only.[/size][/size]
[size=3][size=2]My expectation is that these "issues" have arisen largely because we have a contested election. We have monthly member meetings all across the Club's geographic area and only now, 11 months after we gave the Board the power to amend the bylaws and months after it did so the first time do we have some excitement.
[/size][/size]
Chris
981 GT4
996 GT3 Cup
911 Carrera Sport Coupe
PCA Nationally Trained DE Instructor #200810247
Genesee Valley BMW CCA Instructor
981 GT4
996 GT3 Cup
911 Carrera Sport Coupe
PCA Nationally Trained DE Instructor #200810247
Genesee Valley BMW CCA Instructor